CMPs at the Dutch National Military Museum

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Today, I visited the Dutch National Military Museum in the brand-spanking new building at the former air base at Soesterberg. It combines the collections of the former Military Aviation Museum in Soesterberg and Army Museum in Delft. There are numerous pieces on display, including tanks, planes, armoured vehicles and helicopters.

Well worth a visit if you are in the neighbourhood with numerous aircraft and vehicles and lots of other interesting displays.

Even though I know most of the vehicles from when they were on display in the Arsenal in Delft (which dates back to the 1600's!), it is quite refreshing to see them in a well-lit and very roomy building.

The collection comprises several CMPs, of which I will post pictures in the next postings.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Chevrolet CGT FAT (ex-Danish Army) complete with limber and 25-pdr field gun.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

C60X 6x6, Machinery

[Hanno Spoelstra]

C60L APT, 4x4 3-ton truck



Build date July 30, 1945:



Detachable right-hand front quarter nose piece, typical for the APT (airportable) version of the C60L:

[Hanno Spoelstra]

C15A, 4x4 truck with 2H1 composite wood and steel body

Note: both the C60L APT and C15A were recently repainted in Canadian livery by Bob Kos, with paint samples supplied by Alex van de Wetering, and parts supplied by Dirk Leegwater - all MLU members!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Universal Carrier, MK II (?)

[Hanno Spoelstra]

17-pdr and 6-pdr AT guns

[Niels V]

Hi Hanno
How do you know that the Quad is ex danish, and where it a cut down or complete before restoration ?

[Ed Storey]

Impressive! This museum is on my short list of places to visit during my next trip over.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Niels V

How do you know that the Quad is ex danish, and where it a cut down or complete before restoration ?

Hi Niels, that is what I was told by one of the people who restored the CGT decades ago. It reportedly was a complete example.

The picture on the left shows it on display at the old Arsenal in Delft, when it still sported US side lights on the front fenders (which have now been removed), just like on the modified Danish Army CGT on the right.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Some numbers on CMP trucks in Netherlands Army use:

• About 900 C60L's in use until 1960
• The Artillery had 165 CGT's plus 101 FGTs on strength
• In 1951, 338 C15A's were listed on strength, but undoubtedly more were in service early after WW2

The museum catalog notes that the Army Museum acquired the C60L, C15A and CGT in 1975 as part of a major acquisition. They are unsure if these examples were ever used by the Netherlands Army.

The C60L was used in the movie "A Bridge Too Far".

The C60X was added to the collection in 1983, when it was in poor condition but came with Netherlands Army provenance. This type of truck was in use from 1945 until 1954, then kept is storage as war reserve.

[Maurice Donckers]

Hello Hanno , The Quad was comming from the French Army , at the same time one went to the Pourville Dieppe museum. They where in mint condition.

And another thing , the sidelights on the Danish ones are M series lights , and on the French ones they are Marchall copies from US WW2 style

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Maurice Donckers

Hello Hanno , The Quad was comming from the French Army , at the same time one went to the Pourville Dieppe museum. They where in mint condition.

And another thing , the sidelights on the Danish ones are M series lights , and on the French ones they are Marchall copies from US WW2 style

Maurice, thanks for the correction!

[Alex van de Wetering]

Hanno,

Did you take a picture of the Data plates in the C15A as well? The rear cab wall seems to be of a Wireless truck.

Alex

[Hanno Spoelstra]

One CMP which is no longer on display in the new museum building is the Otter Light Reconnaissance Car.

In the Netherlands Army (RNLA) the Otter was used mainly for reconnaissance and driving courses. After replacing them by other vehicles, the RNLA transferred a number of Otters to the Royal Military Police (Koniklijke Marechaussee) which used them until 1970. The origin of this vehicle is unknown, but it did not serve in the RNLA.

[Maurice Donckers]

The C60L also came from the French army , at the same time as the Quad.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering

Did you take a picture of the Data plates in the C15A as well? The rear cab wall seems to be of a Wireless truck.

No data plates present, but it does have the aperture for the speaker tube in the back of the cab.

Is the lever with PTO (see separate thread) part of the Wireless Truck configuration?

It also does not have a roof hatch (or could this be a remanufactured roof?).

[Grant Bowker]

The spare tire carrier behind the cab is not a feature of the Wire5 (the 2K1 body had the spare tire carrier set into the left side of the body). The generator(s) for the house type Wire5 were chorehorse(s) mounted in the right, rear corner of the body - not PTO driven. Based on these differences, if the truck is completely original and not an amalgam of features from a rebuild, I would guess it is not a Wire5. I've seen so many of the rear cab walls with speaking tube opening that I have wondered if they were used on vehicles other than wireless or if it is just that as a specialized variant the wireless remained in service longer than the GS? The C15A parts list doesn't list a separate roof assembly for the wireless version But it also doesn't list separate roofs for hatchless, square hatch and round hip ring variants - so there's no help there. The wireless trucks had extensive grounding to reduce interference. Check for short braided straps joining the parts of the cab. Also check for the shielded ignition system. According to the C15A-04 parts list, another identifying feature unique to the wireless trucks seems to be that the wireless trucks used a different rifle mounting clip system on the left side in the cab parts group 16.5791 and 16.580. I have never knowingly seen these to know what the differences are from the standard versions.
Hatchless roofs were a production item, my C60X hulk has one. Any time you are more concerned with weather protection than seeing out the roof they make perfect sense.The crosswise brace inside the hatchless roof looks to be an original pattern. I don't remember having seen the two braces in the curve of the roof above the doors. They aren't on my C60X but that doesn't mean they aren't original to the C15A shown.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

The spare tire carrier behind the cab is not a feature of the Wire5 (the 2K1 body had the spare tire carrier set into the left side of the body). The generator(s) for the house type Wire5 were chorehorse(s) mounted in the right, rear corner of the body - not PTO driven. Based on these differences, if the truck is completely original and not an amalgam of features from a rebuild, I would guess it is not a Wire5. I've seen so many of the rear cab walls with speaking tube opening that I have wondered if they were used on vehicles other than wireless or if it is just that as a specialized variant the wireless remained in service longer than the GS?

Agree with the WIRE-5, but what if it was a WIRE-1 / Fitted For Wireless (FFW) version, the one based on the standard 15-cwt cargo body?

[Grant Bowker]

I agree that the tire carrier fits with Wire1 but think the chorehorse on the running board argues against the PTO driving a generator.
I also need to look at the information on the water tank body to see if it had PTO pump as well as hand pumps.

[Alex van de Wetering]

No data plates present, but it does have the aperture for the speaker tube in the back of the cab.

Is the lever with PTO (see separate thread) part of the Wireless Truck configuration?

I don't think that PTO config. can be linked to wireless use. My bet is on a post-war mod, but I am curious if Grant can find out more about the water bowser.

By the way; Is the lever for the Transfer case missing? Or am I confusing things? That would mean it's permanently in two or 4 wheel drive(?).

Maurice, do you know where this C15A came from? France as well? Or ex-Dutch army? If it's the latter, than I would't be surprised if it's a mix of parts and a GS body and spare tyre carrier could easily have landed on a Wire5 chassis....or maybe more likely a Cab rear wall from a 15cwt or 20cwt Wireless truck or Ambulance on a C15A GS truck. I agree with Grant that you should be able to find some kind of evidence, like the extensive use of grounding wires, if the truck was once a Wire5 (or Wire1).

Alex

[Alex van de Wetering]

Hanno,

Have you heard anything on the rarest of them all....the Wasp carrier?
I love to see that on display in the museum.....and preferebly untouched WITHOUT respray!

Alex

[Maurice Donckers]

I think the wasp is on loan to another museum , and what about the Archer and Standard Beaverette?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Have not seen the Wasp and Beaverette for a long time. I last saw the Archer at the Artillery Museum at 't Harde but that was decades ago.

Time to make some calls...

[Grant Bowker]

Following my comment about possible PTO use on the water tank trucks, both the 200 gallon (on 15cwt chassis) and 350 gallon (on 3 ton chassis) had PTO driven pumps in addition to the hand pumps but I don't think the PT used matches the one being discussed here. I will post more info on the PTO lever thread.

[Bob Carriere]

Grant

In the small green shelter is the tranny from a C15a water truck and the tranny is on the floor with the PTO still attached....

Cheers

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Martin IJdo of Historic Engineering wrote:

“We did a full restoration of this vehicle, carefully bringing it back to its full 50’s Dutch army livery including all the small details such as the indicator arms on the a pillar. Colour was exactly matched to a pristine part of the chassis behind the fuel tank. We were amazed to find that this vehicle had been completely stripped and repainted around that time.”


“Remains of shipping data on the side. Also the vivid green colour is clearly visible here, below the 70's layers of RAL6014.”

[Ed Storey]

Nice work and it is good to see the vehicle in accurate post-war livery.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Nice work and it is good to see the vehicle in accurate post-war livery.

I fully agree! I took measurements (for a scale model) of this very C60X when it was still in unrestored condition at the Maaldrift depot. As most, if not all, of the tools and equipment in the back dated from it's post-war Dutch service, I think restoring it in Post-war livery was definitely the way to go...and very well done by Martin indeed.