Somebody please help

davlew25 · #1 30-01-04, 07:40

I am an artist trying to do a painting for my uncle who is a WW2 veteran. I am doing a painting of the insignias of the groups he worked with. My uncle was a Quartermaster SGT. in the Ontario Tank, he said he supplied the Fort Garry Horse, The 1st Hussars, The Sherbrooke Fusiliers and Calgary Tank. He is getting old, and his memory is not what it used to be. I want to make sure Ihave the right Information. He went in on D-Day +3. Any help would be much appreciated.

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #2 30-01-04, 08:22

Quote:

Originally posted by davlew25
My uncle was a Quartermaster SGT. in the Ontario Tank, he said he supplied the Fort Garry Horse, The 1st Hussars, The Sherbrooke Fusiliers and Calgary Tank. He is getting old, and his memory is not what it used to be. I want to make sure I have the right Information. He went in on D-Day +3. Any help would be much appreciated.

davlew25, the Ontario Regiment was a fighting tank regiment in Italy at that time. If as per the bold above your uncle was delivering tanks to the above-mentioned regiments in Normandy, he will have been a member of the Elgin Regiment, otherwise known as the 25th Canadian Armoured Delivery Regiment. He may have been seconded from the ONTARs from early 1943, though.

Interestingly, the Elgins provided the first six officers and some of the men for the first Kangaroos, at the end of July 1944. Ask him if he was any part of that operation. The early Kangaroos were under administrative command of the Elgin Regiment, so as QM Sgt, it's likely he had some interface with them. See my other website http://www.1cacr.org for more info; I am the Kangaroos' official spokesman these days. Information on the first two months' operation of the Kangaroos is scarce, and there's only a handful of them still around and known to us, so any source of info is gold.

BTW, The Elgins still exist as a militia unit, but have been converted to Combat Engineers; their HQ is in St Thomas, Ontario. Where are you and your dad?

Stewart Loy · #3 30-01-04, 13:16

Gents,

The Elgin Regiment has an active Regimental web site, and a few fellows still kicking around SouthWestern Ontario. As a matter of coincidence, a fellow from the association called on me a few weeks ago to speak about adding to the motor pool of the group.

They have a couple of jeeps, but are interested in getting a Universal Carrier. The crappy weather has prevented us from getting together, but I am sure that if they want to get another one running, there is nobody more qualified than these fellows.

I shall ask my contact if they have anybody specifically dedicated to searching through records, if that is what you need.

Please advise.

Stewart

Mark W. Tonner · #4 30-01-04, 16:40

Quote:

Originally posted by davlew25
I am an artist trying to do a painting for my uncle who is a WW2 veteran. I am doing a painting of the insignias of the groups he worked with. My uncle was a Quartermaster SGT. in the Ontario Tank, he said he supplied the Fort Garry Horse, The 1st Hussars, The Sherbrooke Fusiliers and Calgary Tank. He is getting old, and his memory is not what it used to be. I want to make sure Ihave the right Information. He went in on D-Day +3. Any help would be much appreciated.

davlew25;

From what you've said above, your uncle may have served with "C" Squadron, 25th Canadian Armoured Delivery Regiment (The Elgin Regiment) who landed in Normandy early on the morning of D+2 (8 Jun). "C" Squadron were the Armoured Delivery Squadron for the 2nd Canadian Armoured Brigade which consisted of the following Armoured Regiments:

6th Canadian Armoured Regiment (First Hussars)
10th Canadian Armoured Regiment (Fort Garry Horse)
27th Canadian Armoured Regiment (Sherbrooke Fusilier Regiment)

Hope this helps.

What is your uncle's name, I have a nominal roll for the Elgins 1939-45.

Cheers

davlew25 · #5 31-01-04, 06:19

I have to thank you guys for all your help, I am so glad I came here. My uncle is from Toronto and his name is Harry Lewis, he is currently living at Sunnybrook Hospital in the Veterans wing, after suffering a stroke 5 years ago. I love visiting him, he has so many war stories he loves telling. Now I will actually have some questions to ask him. If you have any others you would like to ask let me know. I will talk to him about the Kangaroos this weekend. Thanks again for all of your help

Mark W. Tonner · #6 31-01-04, 15:37

Quote:

Originally posted by davlew25
My uncle was a Quartermaster SGT. in the Ontario Tank, he said he supplied the Fort Garry Horse, The 1st Hussars, The Sherbrooke Fusiliers and Calgary Tank. He is getting old, and his memory is not what it used to be. I want to make sure I have the right Information. He went in on D-Day +3. My uncle is from Toronto and his name is Harry Lewis

davlew25;

The only Lewis, besides a Major F.O. Lewis, that shows on the Elgin's nominal roll for 1939-45 is A42215 Lewis, E.J.

A couple of questions:

- the D-Day +3 you or your uncle refer to, was it Normandy or Sicily.

- was your uncle perhaps in the Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps or Royal Canadian Army Service Corps.

Cheers

davlew25 · #7 31-01-04, 16:01

I definitely know that he landed in Normandy, I am going to see him this morning and have printed off a lot of questions. I will post when I get home.

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #8 31-01-04, 16:06

daview25 -- I think what you need to do is draft a letter from your uncle, get him to sign it, and get a copy of his complete service record from the National Archives. The process and restrictions are outlined here:

http://www.archives.ca/02/020203/02020302_e.html

That way your family will have a permanent record of his service from the day he enlisted to the day he was demobbed.

We can help you translate the military shortforms and jargon.

Geoff

Mark W. Tonner · #9 31-01-04, 16:16

Quote:

Originally posted by davlew25
I definitely know that he landed in Normandy, I am going to see him this morning and have printed off a lot of questions. I will post when I get home.

Thanks, Cheers

davlew25 · #10 31-01-04, 21:20

Thanks for the advice, I will get a letter from him for the archives. I did find out some more today, maybe you guys can tell me some more. My uncle was based at Camp Borden, then left for Aldershot, England. He keeps on telling me he was in the Ontario Tank Corps. He said on D-Day he went in on Juno Beach, he stayed 4 miles offshore until a beachhead was established. Once established he came in and proceeded to Cannes, where some of his groups troops stayed to mop up. He said that they then circled a peninsula cutting off the enemy and joined up with the Americans from Omaha Beach and captured a thousand Germans including a General. From there he said he went on to Niemagen and then Remagen (excuse the spelling). He said he was always a mile or two behind enemy lines and when a tank crew would come in with an injured gunner he would reequip and then send them out. He did not deal with vehicles, he said his Ontario Tank Corps. only used the Sherman Tanks and he never heard of the Kangaroos. He was a Staff Seargant, I hope you guys can help me now. I have to try and find the Insignia of Ontario Tank.

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #11 31-01-04, 21:38

There's no such unit as the 'Ontario Tank Corp' in the Canadian establishment, nor is there the rank of 'Staff Sergeant' (it's an American rank). Nor were Canadians at Remagen, as far as I know; that was far south in the American sector, with the capture of the bridge there well-documented in both the book and the movie "The Bridge at Remagen".

Also, "Cannes" is in the south of France... he might have meant "Caen" in the Canadian sector, but if so, he would never have met Yanks nor been involved in the encirclement of the Cherbourg peninsula. Lots of discrepancies here, which may be, regretfully, attributed to his age.

We need his service records to establish his history.

Over to you.

davlew25 · #12 31-01-04, 22:33

I just did a search and found the name the Ontario Regiment(tank). This has to be the one, I called him up and he said to me "that's what I told you", yeah sure. I found them on regiments.org, and checked the deployment history and everything corresponded to what he told me. From Caen to Nijmengen. He even named several of the small towns and battles that were fought along the way. He also told me that at the end of the war, his commanding officer offered a promtion to Chief Warrant Officer if he stayed in the Army of Occupation, but he turned it down to come home. He also gave me his serial number, is there anywhere I could go and give that number online to find out anymore?

Mark W. Tonner · #13 31-01-04, 22:54

davlew25;

It is a bit of a mystery, the Ontario Regiment was part of the 1st Canadian Armoured Brigade and they didn't arrive in North-West Europe until March 1945, having come up from Italy with the rest of 1st Canadian Corps. In fact, the first elements of the 1st Cdn Armd Bde did not start arriving in their assembly areas in Belgium until 12 Mar 45.

#14 01-02-04, 02:29

nor is there the rank of "Staff Sergeant"

Oh? I know the rank was discontinued in the 60s but it was certainly in existance prior to that.

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #15 01-02-04, 02:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Art Johnson
Oh? I know the rank was discontinued in the 60s but it was certainly in existance prior to that.

Art,

Actually, Mark just called me on the same statement... SQMS and CQMS I know of, but I never heard of SSGT. I'm certainly willing to be corrected, but with all of the above, I'm more curious than ever to find out what this gentleman was and with whom!

Thanks & cheers,

Geoff

Alex Blair (RIP) · #16 01-02-04, 04:14

Art..
You are right..My dad was a staff sergeant with the artillary during WW2..

Frank Misztal · #17 02-02-04, 02:10

and ... I used to work for/with a SSgt Skagfeld JD in early to mid 60s.

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) · #18 02-02-04, 02:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Frank Misztal
and ... I used to work for/with a SSgt Skagfeld JD in early to mid 60s.

Bet he was a real asshole, Frank, eh? C'mon, you can tell us the truth...

Frank Misztal · #19 02-02-04, 02:44

Well... um... errrr... Yeah!

That SOB failed me in my 3/4 ton driving test on 29 Jun 65.

Jon Skagfeld · #20 02-02-04, 04:23

Mea Culpa.

Different times, different attitudes.

GWB...go to hell!

Frank...still got your 416s?

Jon Skagfeld · #21 02-02-04, 04:25

The proper term of address to a Staff Sergeant was...Yes, Staff!

Frank Misztal · #22 02-02-04, 04:34

Originally posted by Jon Skagfeld
Mea Culpa.

I should think so, considering that I passed you on the Grizzly in Jul 82.

Different times, different attitudes.

Yup.

Frank...still got your 416s?

I sure do, Jon. errr... Yes, Staff!

Jon Skagfeld · #23 02-02-04, 04:52

Frank, Graduation Parade was 23 Jul 82, Captain Tollas and BGen Patterson being signatories to the Certificate of Qualification. BTW, I knew damn well that you would make reference to that M37 check ride.

Digressing greatly, that summer of '82 was one of the best I ever had in the military; being a student, then instructor on 2 or 3 week courses in the dunes around Pylon Hill at Borden.

Back to Geoff: I'm surprised that you didn't know about the Staff Sergeant rank in the Canadian Military...up until the late 60s, when the same ranks were flipped over to the rank of Warrant Officer under unification structure.

#24 02-02-04, 15:57

Gee and I thought "Staff" was how you addressed all the warders in DB.

davlew25 · #25 02-02-04, 23:05

Hi everybody, just got in contact with the Base Chief at Camp Borden, he supposedly knows everything about the Canadian Armoured Regiments. He said he would see what he could find and get back to me. I will post his findings.

Mark W. Tonner · #26 02-02-04, 23:21

Quote:

Originally posted by davlew25
Hi everybody, just got in contact with the Base Chief at Camp Borden, he supposedly knows everything about the Canadian Armoured Regiments. He said he would see what he could find and get back to me. I will post his findings.

Thanks; I'd be interested to hear what the 'Base Chief' has to say on the subject.........

Michael Reintjes · #27 03-02-04, 05:48

Me thinks Geoff's assumption that This chap was seconded to "C" Sdn Elgin's from the Ontario Regt is an accurate one.I have a great deal of stuff From Maj.F.O. (BEAR) Lewis and recall a St Thomas newspaper article describing a wait off the shore of Normandy for him to land C sdn.Bear Lewis at that time was O.C of C Sdn which was tasked to resupply 2nd Armoured Brigade on D+1. There was a delay and C sdn did not land until the 8th.This sounds familiarly like the story told above. Which insignia specifically are you looking for? I can emails of scans of these units at your request.

Cheers,Mike Reintjes.

Mark W. Tonner · #28 03-02-04, 15:43

davlew25;

The link below is to the Royal Canadian Armoured Corps Association website and a Historical Sketch of the Ontario Regiment in the Second World War:

http://www.rcaca.org/r-Ontarios.htm

and this link is for the Elgin Regiment (same site):

http://www.rcaca.org/r-Elgin.htm

Cheers

Michael Reintjes · #29 04-02-04, 01:21

Davelew 25......Have PMed you regarding WW2 Insignia you requested.....will email you alll caps collars shoulders buttons and cloth of the units in question...give me a day or two to scan them up...cheers,Mike.

davlew25 · #30 06-02-04, 04:32

Hi everybody, I finally got in touch with a WW2 tanker buff up at Borden. He told me that my uncle was definitely in the Ontario Regiment. He said that back then and even now, a lot of members of that regiment just called it Ontario Tank, hence the confusion. He did go in at Juno Beach on D-Day and his Regiment fought in the battle for Caen. Thanks for all your help everybody, I will post a picture of my tribute when I am finished it. Just one last thing, my uncle keeps telling me every time that we talk that he is not a hero, he just did a job. He says he did not shoot anyone and he came back without a scratch. On the art work I wanted to write " A true hero not only goes into battle and kills, but also gives 6 years of his life for his country and family. You are truly a hero to me". Please give me some comments as to whether it is too corny. It is from the heart. Thanks again