Dutch PAG-trekker (was: Captured Ford / Chevrolet / DAF ??)

[gordon]

Olaf in Holland bought this WW2 period German shot with a vehicle in the background. He thinks it may be a Ford or Chevrolet altered for use by the Dutch army (possibly by DAF) and then captured.

Anyone any ideas ? It looks vaguely like a Dodge, but doesn't have any of the proper grille types for 39 or 40, and the screen and back body are definitely 'local'

Olaf can be contacted via e-mail.

Gordon


http://www.gwim2.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fsd.jpg

Originally posted by gordon
Anyone any ideas ? It looks vaguely like a Dodge, but doesn't have any of the proper grille types for 39 or 40, and the screen and back body are definitely 'local'

Its a standard Dutch (pre-war) Chevrolet-DAF Light Artillery Tractor 4x4. All the Germans have done is add the bundles of wood to the front.

They would have captured hundreds of course.

The chap in front is a German motorcyclist.

R.

[gordon]

I knew somebody here would know

Gordon

Originally posted by gordon
I knew somebody here would know

Well, I can't really take the credit Gordon.

Do remember I have the Wehrmacht walking encyclopedia close to hand and a personal friend in the shape of Paul Hocking and, we had a bag of chips each for lunch while he carried on the restoration of a VW166. . . . . . . . . . . .

R.

[Bill Murray]

Gordon:

Thanks for sharing the photo. All the ones I have are pristine parade or delivery type shots. First action shot I have seen of a Chev although I do have some of the Ford similar vehicle. Nuyt and Stellan will enjoy it also.
Bill

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Yes, 1939 Chevrolet-DAF chassis , sourced by GM Continental SA in Rotterdam but chassis assembled by the Antwerp factory of course.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
Yes, 1939 Chevrolet-DAF Trado

No, not a Trado - it's a PAG trekker (Pantserafweergeschut trekker or AT tractor).
Here's a picture of the Ford/DAF version:


Source: http://www.autogallery.org.ru/

[nuyt]

The spare wheel might be a German addition too.
Nuyt

Overvalwagens!

[Bill Murray]

Can anyone post pics or links to more of these trekkers?
Really neat vehicles and at least in the spirit of CMPs.
Bill

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bill Murray
Can anyone post pics or links to more of these trekkers?

Here you go, Bill:
http://www.grebbeberg.nl/bibliotheek/foto/img7_675.html
http://www.grebbeberg.nl/bibliotheek/foto/img7_670.html
http://www.grebbeberg.nl/bibliotheek/foto/img7_555.html
Source: http://www.grebbeberg.nl/

Enjoy!
Hanno

[Bill Murray]

Very nice shots indeed although the last is a bit sad.

I particularly appreciate you kept up with a thread that is almost six months old to help out.

Of course, yet another site to bookmark and explore and as always, time, time, time is always so short.

However, we are through the Christmas selling season, did our best December in our 14 years in the trade, and most of the after Christmas return problems are over so I can take a few days off and catch up to MLU amongst other forums.

I hope to post rather a bit in the next few weeks as I don't have to spend so much time at the shop.

Bill

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bill Murray
Very nice shots indeed although the last is a bit sad.

It does, however, offer a good view of the Pag-trekker's body construction.

I particularly appreciate you kept up with a thread that is almost six months old to help out.

I´m not sure who I´m trying to help out - whenever I come across an interesting site/picture I tend to make a related note of it on this forum. Kind of a reminder for me to explore yet another site whenever I find time to learn more about my own country's military vehicles (of which I know less about than Commonwealth vehicles...)
You´re welcome, though

Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here's another Pag-trekker (Chevrolet, I presume), used by German soldiers during one of their feared razzia's in Holland, late 1944. As you can see the soldiers dismount their vehicle to block off a street. They would go from door to door to pick up any man aged 17 to 50 for the Arbeitseinsatz (forced labour for the Germans).

Reportedly, my late grandfather avoided being picked up in razzia by hiding under the floor, with one of his boys put in a baby cot on top of the trap door. The boy would be crying as he was really too big to be put in a baby cot. When a German soldier asked why he was crying, my grandmother answered he was afraid of all those soldiers with their rifles. Or so the story goes...

Picture from Nederland 1940-1945. De gekleurde waarheid, featuring wartime photos (many in colour, sadly not this one) from the collection of Alphons Hustinx.

[Bill Murray]

Hanno:
Thanks for posting yet again a very rare photo. I bow down to Bill Gates and whoever else invented the internet every day.
And....no, it was not Al Gore.

Your vehicle is assuredly a GM product but a bit strange for a raid car as if you look at the relationship of the German troops size to the vehicle it appears to be based on a light truck chassis as opposed to a passenger car. The wheels/tyres also seem to indicate something other than a passenger car chassis. Or, by 1944 the Germans may have just been putting whatever wheels/tyres they could find on anything that was still running.

Bit off of your subject, but I have read in several books that Germany, based on not only Hitler's thought process but also seconded by his top aides, refused to go to a total war footing as regards conscripting German citizens for the war effort well into 1944. The reason most often cited was that it would be bad for the German public's morale to admit that they could not wage a war outside Germany and not maintain a "normal lifestyle" inside Germany. So, as you indicated, they "vacuumed" the whole of the occupied territories for labour forces almost to the end.

I am still working on the MH Ford project, perhaps something tonight, surely tomorrow.
Bill

[cliff]

Originally posted by Bill Murray
Your vehicle is assuredly a GM product but a bit strange for a raid car as if you look at the relationship of the German troops size to the vehicle it appears to be based on a light truck chassis as opposed to a passenger car. The wheels/tyres also seem to indicate something other than a passenger car chassis. Or, by 1944 the Germans may have just been putting whatever wheels/tyres they could find on anything that was still running.

you are right Bill. I would say a 15cwt to 1 ton light truck chassis. This would also explain the wheels and tyres.

I am still working on the MH Ford project, perhaps something tonight, surely tomorrow.

I too wait in anticipation of this as well

cheers
Cliff

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bill Murray
Your vehicle is assuredly a GM product but a bit strange for a raid car as if you look at the relationship of the German troops size to the vehicle it appears to be based on a light truck chassis as opposed to a passenger car. The wheels/tyres also seem to indicate something other than a passenger car chassis. Or, by 1944 the Germans may have just been putting whatever wheels/tyres they could find on anything that was still running.

As far as I know the Dutch Pag-trekker (AT gun tractor) was based on a light truck chassis. As it had seats for the gun crew it was put to use a raid "car" (truck? vehicle?) - no doubt the troops could get out to round upsome civilians as quickly as was originally intended for the AT gun crew to dismount.

Bit off of your subject, but I have read in several books that Germany, based on not only Hitler's thought process but also seconded by his top aides, refused to go to a total war footing as regards conscripting German citizens for the war effort well into 1944.

Indeed I understand their whole economy did not switch into full war mode until 1944, i.e. before that factories still made "consumer's goods" as we would call them today. It still amazes me how that country could take on the best part of the world and last as long as they did.

H.

[Bill Murray]

Hanno:
You really do need to go to bed, it is now getting very late in Holland.

To the pic and the post, in my experience, most "raid" cars were based on normal civilian passenger car chassis, suitably modified. In the main, they were US origin or branded vehicles such as Chevrolet, Ford, Chrysler etc. I was very pleased to see your pic of one based on a truck chassis even if I did not feel good about the use that the vehicle was intended for.

As to the subject of Germany failing to go to a "total war footing" this is most certainly a topic for another web site, but......, as an enthusiastic if even amateur student of modern history, I have collected a large number of books on the WWII era, many of which deal with the situation in Germany during the war.

Amongst other things that I have read, and I suppose it is the truth, Germany was still conscripting women from the East to act as maids for the well to do German families as late as 1944.
In my country, I can remember that we had a "Victory Garden" behind our small house 1942/1945 where we grew our own vegetables. We sure as hell did not have a "maid" even though we would have been considered as "upper middle class" at that time.
All of the women who might have performed that job were building airplanes in my town of San Diego, California during that era.
Sorry, got off topic.
Bill

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bill Murray
To the pic and the post, in my experience, most "raid" cars were based on normal civilian passenger car chassis, suitably modified. In the main, they were US origin or branded vehicles such as Chevrolet, Ford, Chrysler etc. I was very pleased to see your pic of one based on a truck chassis even if I did not feel good about the use that the vehicle was intended for.

The raid cars you're referring to are the converted US cars of which the rear body and roof was chopped off and replaced by a simple wooden rear body - a common form of Umbau-wagen.

I never said this is a raid car - it a Chevrolet Pag-trekker (AT gun Tractor) , just one of many captured vehicles put to use in occupied territory, used for patrolling, transporting, raiding, etc. - whatever the German army was doing in Holland at the time. At least it did not get shot up on the Eastern front. I wonder if it survived the war to be driven into the ground in civvy street?

H.

[Bill Murray]

Hanno:
Still up late aren't you. Shame on you for spending your Saturday night at the computer instead of at the Pub.

I stand corrected, of course. I completely missed the reference to the Pag-trekker and merrily went on my way trying to show how smart I am by identifying a raid car as a truck. I shall have to read slower or something.
Interesting the concept of raid cars. As far as I know, they are or have been used in most of Europe and I saw them in South America and Asia. Never have seen one in the US or Canada.
Our Police tend to ride in huge Ford Crown Victorias, usually one man to a car and by reputation spend so much time at the Dunkin Donut shop they couldn't run after anyone anyway.
Cheers
Bill

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here's another line of Pag-trekkers, this time 1939 Fords, in service with the Dutch Motordienst in 1940.

Source: http://www.leger1939-1940.nl/Artikel/motordienst.htm

[Hanno Spoelstra]

This picture, as featured on www.overvalwagen.com, shows a batch of DAF-converted Chevies as captured by the Germans.

http://www.overvalwagen.com/images/dafchevcomm2.jpg
Picture: Wheels and Tracks Magazine

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

The rhd suggests another batch of Chevrolets assembled by GM Continental, supplied through the Rotterdam sales office, and then sent to DAF but not delivered.

Hanno, do I take it that any survivors of these captured vehicles were made available to the Dutch civilians post-war? I know of a former Wehrmacht [Heer] Blitz that was issued to a Dutch business, only to be sold into preservation.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
The rhd suggests another batch of Chevrolets assembled by GM Continental, supplied through the Rotterdam sales office, and then sent to DAF but not delivered.

Nuyt writes: "due to the "changing situation in Europe" we know that a different order was placed with DAF for a batch of right hand drive Chevrolet 4x4 commandowagens. These types, also available on Ford chassis, had already been tried out as light artillery tractors (Pantserafweergeschut or Pag-trekkers) by the Dutch Army in Europe. Probably none was delivered before the German invasion of Holland."

Hanno, do I take it that any survivors of these captured vehicles were made available to the Dutch civilians post-war? I know of a former Wehrmacht [Heer] Blitz that was issued to a Dutch business, only to be sold into preservation.

Most certainly any surviving vehicles were distributed to organisations which had an urgent need for transportation, like civil services, trucking companies, etc. Civilians were down the priority list. My grandfather got a temporary military rank, a VW Beetle and a driver to go and find back looted property (ranging from industrial machinery to an elephant!) in Germany. As such, he was one of the first civilians to have access to a car post war.
Possibly some Pag-trekkers ended up as fire crew vehicles or such after the war - that is if any were left! Most were probably sent to the Eastern front, though.

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here's one of two Pag-trekkers which were shipped to the UK by retreating Dutch troops. Shown here during a parade by the Prinses Irene Brigade.

Now, where could this one have ended up?!?


Source: http://www.fuseliers.net/eng-brigpics.htm

[Bill Murray]

Evening Hanno:

I continue to be awed by your talent for hunting down obscure photos, that's for sure.
I cannot answer your question, but I am very glad you shared the photo with us. Please keep up the hunt.
Bill

[nuyt]

here it is:
The Great DAF PAG-trekker thread!
Enjoy!
Nuyt

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by ericnuyt
The Great DAF PAG-trekker thread!

Also see New site with lots of Dutch, German and French 1940 vehicle pics

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Picture from axishistory forum:

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another one:

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Here's one of two Pag-trekkers which were shipped to the UK by retreating Dutch troops. Shown here during a parade by the Prinses Irene Brigade.

Could this be the other one? "L1284684" shown while being used for training in the UK in 1940. Ref. Vehicles used by Dutch Prinses Irene Brigade.