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#31
18-10-06, 04:04
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Forging Bonds
Bob and Dan,
Let's work on getting more participation in both locales. There appears to be a few events in the Montreal area every year that don't get advertised on our end. Perhaps Dan can post details here on the MLU and spread the word on his end. It would be great to get more Montrealers out to our Ontario events and vice versa. Language won't be a barrier - we all speak truck! Rob
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RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$? 
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#32
19-10-06, 01:08
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I was just wondering if there was a way to open a Montreal group of OMVA. As we could all be in the loop.
Dan P.s. I am aware that "O" is for Ontario.
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#33
23-10-06, 02:10
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The Milk Run
Bob and I decided to take another road trip. This time for parts, and a new area (for us) to explore. Our plan was to visit Angus Buisseneau near Bruce Mines to take him up on his invitation he made at the Caldwell Convoy this summer.
Leaving Ottawa at o'dark thirty, Bob and I were one of three or four souls on the Queensway- what a treat! We hit a few snow sqaualls and showers, but no moose or deer were seen or hit. A few hours later, we got to see the sun rise in our rear view mirrors. At North Bay we had a quick breakfast, and hit the road again. It is amazing that our TransCanada Highway thru this part of Ontario amounts to two lanes of bi-directional traffic, yet you can travel thru Quebec from west to east on your choice of superhighways...The good folks of the near north have to start kicking some Toronto butt and get the roads twinned - and not just for us parts runners either. We noted with amusement the number of pickup trucks with ATVs mounted on trailers we saw. What kind of people are these ATV guys? They get up early in the morning, drive in bad weather, expose themselves to the elements and pay a lot of money to enjoy their hobby. Bob mused drily that they should have picked a saner hobby... When we could see, we scanned the sides of the roads for treasure - a 5 ton, a few deuce and a halfs, and one older jeep with a plow were spotted on the way up. As we got closer to Bruce Mines, Bob quipped that it was no use looking for other treasures as we were now in Angus's stomping grounds. After passing through the 45th small town/village, we finally arrived at Bruce Mines. Our trip math was slightly off (by three hours), but Angus was the graceful host. As soon as we arrived we were up to our necks in mud stripping down a 45 HUP frame and taking parts of a cab 11 wreck. Angus mentioned that all of the snow that fell earlier that week had melted from the subsequent three days of rain. Angus has a virtual "field of dreams" with many unique military and civilian vehicles in various stages of restoration. He is well kitted out with a large workshop, splendid isolation, and no ball and chain henpecking him about wasting a weekend travelling long distances, spending good money for rusty truck bits and then driving home again...some guys have all the luck. After loading up the truck with some really rare parts, we settled accounts. Bob and I were then treated to the royal tour of Angus's empire - a "What is it" is attached for the curious. He has been very busy since CC and his UC looks close to 90 percent restored. Following the tour, we said our goodbyes and hit the road for home. We were just passing thru Blind River, when Neil Young came on the radio singing "Long May You Run" - talk about coincidences. Outside Espanola, we had a good chuckle - someone had modified a MUTT M151 by turning it into what appeared to be a 6X4 vehicle. We didn't have the camera ready as we were both surprised and amused at the wonder we had just seen. After a few coffees and steeped teas, we stopped for supper in Sudbury (no, Stompin Tom did not come on the radio with "Sudbury Saturday Night"...that would have been too funny!). At North Bay we stopped the truck and paid homage to the last honest politician, Mike Harris and then we Willie Nelsoned. The remainder of the trip was like the start of the trip - dark. We pulled into Sucking Central (AKA Ottawa - the Town Fun Forgot) at about 1:00 AM. There was plenty of traffic on the Queensway, and we were welcomed by a suicide jockey in a small car with out-of-province plates who thought it would be nice to cut us off at high speed. Fortunately, our load was well tied down and we just missed embedding a Honda in our grill. I hope he enjoyed the high beam Morse code message we sent him... Bob slowed down enough for me to jump out and then he headed for the Hammond barn. Bob will provide the stats for the trip later on. The trip was worth the time and effort for me as I now have about 90 percent of the parts I need for a full restoration. After typing this post, my memory recalled a quote from a good friend in the hobby, who put things into perspective: "You don't have to be insane to enjoy this hobby, but it certainly helps."
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RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$? Last edited by RHClarke; 23-10-06 at 02:21.
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#34
23-10-06, 02:28
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Don't Mess with Bob!
The attached shot shows Bob expressing his dismay at not bringing the trailer. The object is a front axle shaft that has been twisted into a rather artistic shape. Just one of the many interesting items seen near Bruce Mines this weekend.
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RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$?
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#35
23-10-06, 03:07
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Bruce mine recovery....
Well we got a truck load....
...approx. 1700 km and about 22 hours of pure unadultered fun. Got some decent mileage from the diesel..... fact that we averaged 105 km per hour instead of cannon balling at 120kpm as we usually do returned some 7 km per litre. Angus lives about 2 1/2 inch past the edge of the map..... he said....I just listenned... when they get a electrical power outage it takes 4 hours for the last volt to run out at his end. We could have spent 3 days instead of 4 hours at Angus' place. Rob..... I maneged to store at the parts high and dry inside the barn or your tent cover before the white stuff came down... Hoping to play hooky on Tuesday afternoon and meet you at the barn.... whomever gets there first lights a fire..... "Wimin" would never understand it...... Bob
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Bob Carriere....B.T.B C15a Cab 11 Hammond, Ontario Canada
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#36
23-10-06, 13:28
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The watizit
I see 2 possibilities, ether a Deutz (or similar) air cooled or a super-sized aternator cum welder/generator, both on a turbocharged inline. Either way, interesting.....
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#37
24-10-06, 01:14
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We Have A Winner!
Well done, Grant. A Deutz it is. Now for something completely different (and we don't know what it is...). What the heck is this beastie?
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RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$?
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#38
24-10-06, 01:19
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What Is It - Data Plate
The data plate is difficult to read but it looks to read BLACKHAWK
Half Track ARPS Corporation...I think:
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RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$?
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#39
24-10-06, 01:38
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Re: What Is It - Data Plate
Quote:
Richard
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#40
24-10-06, 01:43
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Another Winner!
Quote:
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RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$?
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#41
24-10-06, 02:00
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More Whatizit guesses
Assuming that you are asking about the yellow parts in the foreground, my guess is that they come from a tractor/backhoe.
The rectangular sections sitting diagonally on the right look like the rear support/brace legs that are hydralically operated. The chains would be to secure them in the up position for travel. There look to be steps mounted at half length to aid in climbing onto the machine. The square plate on the left with pivot fixture on one side and ground anchor ribs on the other looks like the foot anchored on the end of the previous arms (upper end as they are sitting). There seems to be a second of these sitting in the heavy center part. I think the heavy center part is the cutoff rear of the tractor frame, sitting with its back face downward. I believe there are mounts for the brace arms angled out and down as it is sitting and on the centerline, facing down might be the remains of the pivot for the boom. If I'm right, the overall construction is much lighter than current Case 580 or equivalent. So it is either from a much earlier variant before they put on so much beef or a lighter model. My impression is that if it is a Case 580, it is probably late 1960s, which could match as faded paint (they used to be more yellow than current Case machines). On the other hand, MF also painted Industrial machines yellow for visibility and I also remember yellow Ford backhoes, among others. I don't know about the yellow wheels or the other bits. Any takers for my guesses? Or other ideas? I started to reply before the second photo went up, is the data plate on the part being studied by the welder's beanie? If so, I wonder if it is part of a half track conversion for tractors? This might explain the parts being in the same area. I know they made such kits for Ford tractors (front wheels unaltered, a wheel similar in size to the fronts mounted ahead of the rears and being the lead for a track passing around them and the rears). I assume could have been for other makes too. I will try to find and post a photo of such a conversion once I get the home computer refired. On edit, Richard beat me to it for the halftrack conversion (I need to learn to type properly), I'll still try to find a photo to post, my guesses stand for the other bits. Enough typing or someone will beat me to the other parts as well.
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#42
24-10-06, 02:39
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Re: More Whatizit guesses
Quote:
Good guess. As for the other parts, I think Angus knows what they are. Are you coming out Tuesday afternoon to see the "haul"? RHC
__________________
RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$?
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#43
06-11-06, 02:25
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Must Have Been Breathing Too Many Fumes...
I mounted the downlinks for the 45 HUP, and the results for the passanger side have me scratching my head. The attached photo does not show it, but the down link rests on the bumper plate over the springs. The shot is taken from the front looking towards the rear of the vehicle.
The driver side married up quite nicely (however, I am just thrilled with the prospect of mounting the steering arm and link...). Is the pad on backwards??? Was the passanger side down link bent on purpose so it would fit? OK, HUP experts...HELP!
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RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$?
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#44
07-11-06, 03:58
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If you don't.....
Hi Rob
....if you do not get a reply in a few days consider making a new thread... may attract more Hup-ees....
__________________
Bob Carriere....B.T.B C15a Cab 11 Hammond, Ontario Canada
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#45
07-11-06, 14:49
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How long is the arm and what is the offset?
Hi Rob
The shock arm looks considerably different from the ones on my `45 HUP if I remember correctly your has different spring mounts and springs. The picture below shows the left front link on my HUP which is about 7” long between the centers just in passing the rear arms are about 10 ½”. Are these shocks the ones that came on the truck, in other words is the problem a assembly problem or parts matching problem? Something looks wrong in the angle of the link down from the end of the shock arm to the axle bracket. I’ve posted a bunch of shots of the shocks and links on my web page. http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...ailphotos.html See if any of them help if you need definite measurements just let me know.
__________________
Phil Waterman `41 C60L Pattern 12 `42 C60S Radio Pattern 13 `45 HUP http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/ New e-mail Philip@canadianmilitarypattern.com
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#46
07-11-06, 18:12
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Re: How long is the arm and what is the offset?
Quote:
Our shock arms in the front are indeed very different. The shock in my photo came with the truck. I think the arm was bent by one of the many previous owners, so I will be replacing it with the another shock that I recently got from a 45 HUP wreck. Interestingly, the replacement shocks are stamped with a 1945 manufacturing date (photo to follow when I get back to the barn...). The replacements are the same as those that came with my truck, but that is not to say that they were not swapped out some time ago! My rear shocks are exactly the same as yours. The angle of my down link and the angle of the shock arm are wrong. So, the challenges continue. I'll take measurements after I get back from the wild West, or if Bob gets bored with herding his cats, maybe he can send the angles to you. Alex. How is the search for a 45 HUP Maint Manual going??
__________________
RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$?
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#47
07-11-06, 18:24
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Re: Re: How long is the arm and what is the offset?
Quote:
You mean these ones..?? #3: 300+ pages MB-C2 Maintenance Manual, for GM CMP vehicles. 15 cwt 4x2, 15 cwt. 4x4, 30 cwt 4x4, 3 ton 4x4 HU 4x4, F.A.T. 4x4. Sept. 1943 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- #3A 300+ pages GM Service Bulletins Updates for MB-C2(May-November 1943).. ***These bulletins were issued to the field maintenance shops for upgrades to the CMP vehicles.. Many proceedures in the bulletins and additions did not make the maintenance manuals
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Alex Blair :remember :support :drunk:
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#48
07-11-06, 18:54
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Re: Re: Re: How long is the arm and what is the offset?
Quote:
If not for the wildly different aspects of the HUP, those manuals would do just fine. I suspect we can find the 1945 HUP Maint Manual hiding under a pile of rocking horse dirt... Cheers, RHC
__________________
RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$?
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#49
08-11-06, 03:59
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Will try.....
Phil / Rob
Will try to match Phil's picture angle for a better match...... ...my first observation ........ shock arm may be longer.... ........................................... the attachment at the bottom that is bolted to the axle flange may have a different angle... ...... the centre pin on the springs are wrong and the resulting position of the spring plate is tooooo far forward..?? Phil...... are your front springs design with a centre pin that is not located at dead centre.... which means to get the proper axle distance of 101 inch the springs have to be mounted in the proper orientation...?? Part of the problem here is that Rob is doing his darnest to rebuild it has he found it.... but found condition may be different than original..... Comments on the off center center bolt any one??? Bob
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Bob Carriere....B.T.B C15a Cab 11 Hammond, Ontario Canada
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#50
08-11-06, 04:09
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Interesting, but
Quote:
The wheel base is 101 inches, n'est pas? If so, then the springs are not the issue as I see it. The center pin for the springs are as per all of the originals I have seen. As well, it was that very shock that was connected to the bodged up down link - which I will measure next trip... As for the lower attachment point, we should have another look at it... Given the exceedingly poor condition of the old girl, I would not be surprised if the previous owners "adjusted" the mounts. Ain't we got fun?!? Rob Keep on thinkin!
__________________
RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$? Last edited by RHClarke; 08-11-06 at 17:49.
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#51
08-11-06, 15:09
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Spring center pins
As I understand it, your new springs were built using the old ones as patterns, and they matched visually (but no-one put a micrometer to them) ??
I don't think it would take more than about a 1/4 inch difference in center pin position to provide clearance rather than interference. As we wrestled the springs into place, we measured to confirm closest to 101 inch and were very close to 101". Would we have noticed/rejected 1/4" over as long as it was closest to 101?? Phil's photos show much more clearance than "just barely clears". At the time we were more concerned with getting the (apparently too short) driveshaft to match up than shocks, although moving the axle further back (we put it in the further back of the two possibles, didn't we?) would help both issues. I'm scratching my head as hard as I can, without brilliant answers.
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#52
08-11-06, 15:10
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Bob as to your question?
" Phil...... are your front springs design with a centre pin that is not located at dead centre.... which means to get the proper axle distance of 101 inch the springs have to be mounted in the proper orientation...?? " Bob I can't answer you question about the center bolt location as I never have had the axle off my HUP as the lack of paint and the grime in the pictures will attest. I will measure as best I can the distance from the spring eye centers to the center of the bracket. Rob seeing your pictures and looking at my HUP makes me think that pulling the body off to clean and repaint the under carriage should be a project for this winter. Have to add it to my to do list.
__________________
Phil Waterman `41 C60L Pattern 12 `42 C60S Radio Pattern 13 `45 HUP http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/ New e-mail Philip@canadianmilitarypattern.com
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#53
08-11-06, 15:43
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Question about manual and parts book
Rob- What date Spare Parts List are you working with? Over the years I have seen various Spare Parts List for the HUP with different dates. The one that came with my HUP is dated June 1945 and shows a number of running part number changes. Back when I was first collecting information about HUPs I was corresponding with Bart Vanderveen and he had not see a parts list dated that late, I sent him a copy of mine. Comparing when parts changes showed in the parts book was one of Bart’s ways of dating particular vehicles as in many cases the a parts change will show a notation “before Serial No 484—16967” I’ve posted the Front Spring and Shock Pages to my web page http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...ailphotos.html
__________________
Phil Waterman `41 C60L Pattern 12 `42 C60S Radio Pattern 13 `45 HUP http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/ New e-mail Philip@canadianmilitarypattern.com Last edited by Phil Waterman; 08-11-06 at 16:23.
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#54
09-11-06, 02:18
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Re: Spring center pins
Quote:
Some good info is coming this way from other 45 HUP owners. I just checked some photos of a Manitoba 45 HUP and it has the same style arms as my HUP. This leads me to believe that sometime in 45 (by August - post VE Day) the design spec changed for the shock arms... The only replacement parts on the springs were the top leafs, the centre pins and one bracket. All else is the same. You will recall that we measured the original top leaf and came within 1/8th inch of the new leafs. So the centre pin theory seems to be ruled out. As for the wheelbase - we hit 101, so that isn't the cause. The driveshaft problem will resolve itself when I move the flanges closer to the cotter pin holes - I expect that the missing 1/2 inch will show up...(fingers crossed). Keep scratching! Fortunately we have Bob's "centerfold quality" HUP photos to take our minds off of these challenges for a little while. By the way, Phil/Mark Perrry, what is the manufacture date on your HUP? RHC
__________________
RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$?
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#55
09-11-06, 07:54
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picture
hello, is it possible to place a picture taken from over the wheel?
Hendrik :idea:
__________________
Ford F15A Chevrolet C60S-brkd-5 (4) Carrier MK 1 Willys MB Austin K2 ATV Welbike MK I Volvo L475
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#56
09-11-06, 18:18
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Re: Question about manual and parts book
Quote:
I wasn't aware that there was a SPL for HUPs. I love this forum - you learn something new everytime you tune in. I really appreciate the detailed photos and info presented on your website - they are most instructive. Alex, What HUP docs (other than those already mentioned) do you have??
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RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$?
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#57
09-11-06, 22:35
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Date of Manufacture
Date of Manufacture for my HUP is June 7, 1945
I've posted some more pictures and manual pages on HUP details http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...ailphotos.html
__________________
Phil Waterman `41 C60L Pattern 12 `42 C60S Radio Pattern 13 `45 HUP http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/ New e-mail Philip@canadianmilitarypattern.com
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#58
10-11-06, 01:02
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Re: picture
Quote:
Here is a shot of the arm and link when I got the truck. I'll post the new shot in the future. I just noticed that the bumper pad over the springs is fitted differently .... Mark Perry, which way are your spring pads oriented?? Also note the rubber spacer located between the frame and body.
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RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$? Last edited by RHClarke; 10-11-06 at 01:09.
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#59
11-11-06, 03:54
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Oooops.....
Rob......
...look at the recent picture compared to the original picture you took before the disassembly...... your spring pad is reversed in the new set up compared to the original..... ....but not to feel bad so his Phil's spring pad.... who is right??? Also check the style of the little bracket where the link rod attaches to the axle...... Phil's has reinforcement raised edges yours are made flat and yours seem to have a certain bent angle. None of the above would affect the lack of clearance. ...only a HUP..... Bob
__________________
Bob Carriere....B.T.B C15a Cab 11 Hammond, Ontario Canada
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#60
24-11-06, 18:44
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HUP HEX
Surprise! Surprise! There were more than a few variations for the 45 HUP knee action shock (KAS) arms.
Bob and I laid out three KAS to compare. All three had a centre to centre (of the holes) measurement of 8.5 inches. However, all three had different bends to the arms - particularly at the thick end that attaches to the KAS pivot...could they have gotten bent? More head scratching... Since my HUP was a collection of rebuilt and adapted parts, I don't know what the original KAS should look like. The KAS I got from Angus B look original, but were they pulled off something else? I guess the best thing to do is to ask other 45 HUP owners if they can measure their KAS arms and send the dimensions...any help will be appreciated and rewarded (beer at the next CC!) I'll be one happy Rotter when I finish the Metal Mistress (the wife's name for the HUP).
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RHC Why is it that when you have the $$, you don't have the time, and when you have the time you don't have the $$?
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