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  #1  
Old 17-10-07, 21:02
Brad Mills Brad Mills is offline
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Default Artillery Formation/Unit Signs HELP

OK,

Have been trying to contact Gunner but to no avail. Can someone shed some light on the markings for his Bofors.



Above are the markings on his Bofors.

I have opted to make mine part of the 3rd Canadian Infantry Division to go along with the NNSH, so, as Mikes is marked as the 3rd Div I tought it would be a cool idea to become gun #2 in that Troop.

Mikes Gun is marked as(correct me if I'm wrong):

4 LAA REGT
100 LAA BTY
H TP

???

My confusion on his markings...the Red over Blue square with 47 is pretty straight forward, then there is a small blue square above it with the small red square on the lower left hand side. Marked inside this is the following:
B 4
1

What do the above mean? B TP? Gun # 4 or Gun #1?

If someone can decode the markings for me and advise what my gun should be marked as if it was in that Troop!!!
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  #2  
Old 17-10-07, 22:01
Brad Mills Brad Mills is offline
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My only other question on the formation/unit signs, does this piece follow the rule that the colored squares are 9.5 x 8.5 in size?

Mikes appear to be different sizes then this.
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  #3  
Old 17-10-07, 22:02
Noel Burgess Noel Burgess is offline
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Based on British practice:
Position of the small red square indicates the battery - starting top right (for 1 Bty) and moving clockwise - so this is No3 Battery.

Then it starts to be a case of understanding the regiment's dialect - the norm is: - 1 Bty has A, B & C troops; 2 Bty D, E & F and so on - but this scheme was often varied - B4 should represent No4 gun of B troop - Haven't a clue what the 1 represents though.

Noel
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  #4  
Old 17-10-07, 22:17
Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)'s Avatar
Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) is offline
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According to Beldam, Brad, it's either E- or F-TP of 100 LAA BTY, 4 LAA REGT. I haven't found the 'B, 4, 1' laid out as he has them in his original book, but that may have been amended; my copy is dated 1995. If it were B-TP (according to the record I have), the red square should be top right, and I found no sign with two numeric designations following the 'B'; we need Mikey's input. Post a separate message with his name in the title, and leave him a PM - he'll find one or both sooner or later!

Jif
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  #5  
Old 17-10-07, 22:22
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Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP) is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by BMills
Mikes appear to be different sizes then this.
This is why he only opens the Mess now AFTER the guns have been serviced...

BTW, 'H-TP' is with 94 AT BTY of 3 AT REGT.
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  #6  
Old 17-10-07, 22:48
Brad Mills Brad Mills is offline
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Geoff,

I PM'd Gunner yesterday on this and no sign of him yet. Perhaps he's out in the Bush :-) I understand he's at a British Base so God only knows what sort of trouble he has found himself in.

I have Bedhams book as well and thats where my confusion my be coming from.

He lists the following:

3 Canadian Infantry Division
Artillery
Jul 1944
4 LAA REGT
RHQ
32nd LAA BTY (A, B and C TP)
69th LAA BTY (D, E and F TP)
100th LAA BTY (G, H and I TP


The BTY is listed with the following:
12x BOFORS (SP)
12 x BOFORS
12 x POLSTEN (QUAD)

SO...would they sort things out in the above Example that
G TP would be BOFORS (SP)
H TP would be BOFORS (Towed)
I TP would be Polsten (QUAD)

??? Thats my guess and the small blue square with the red block in that position makes this H Troop

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By 8 MAY 1945 they dropped the 12 Polsten (QUAD) and as such did away with the additional Troop in each BTY.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3 Canadian Infantry Division
Artillery
8 MAY 1945
4 LAA REGT
RHQ
32nd LAA BTY (A and B TP)
69th LAA BTY (C and D TP)
100th LAA BTY (E and F TP)

The BTY is listed with the following:
12x BOFORS (SP)
12 x BOFORS


I cannot find reference to the #1 either.

Very confused

Last edited by Brad Mills; 17-10-07 at 23:16.
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  #7  
Old 17-10-07, 23:01
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Brad, for the 1944 input, the way I read it is 12 guns per BTY, ie 32 BTY w/12 Bofors (SP), 69 BTY w/12 Bofors (Towed) and 100 BTY w/12 Polsten (Quad), which is why I ignored that entry. The 1945 input seems more in line with what we're talking about, but the 'B' reference seems out of place - shouldn't it be an 'E' or an 'F'?
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  #8  
Old 17-10-07, 23:10
Brad Mills Brad Mills is offline
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Your right, I noted in error, the 8 MAY 1944 should read 8 MAY 1945. So by the end of the war the POLSTEN was dropped. I will go back and edit my post.

-BUT-

Would they not have mixed up the guns, ie :

(JUL 1944)
32 BTY
A TP BOFORS (SP)
B TP BOFORS (Towed)
C TP POLSTEN (QUAD)

And so on for the 69th and 100th BTY
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  #9  
Old 17-10-07, 23:58
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Brad, someone more knowledgeable than I would have to confirm, but to my way of thinking there's no way each BTY would have 24-36 guns... that's more like the total complement for the Regiment, ie 4 guns per TP and 8 guns per BTY, as per their sister FD REGTs.
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  #10  
Old 18-10-07, 01:02
Brad Mills Brad Mills is offline
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No No No Geoff

A total of 12 guns per BTY

(JUL 1944)
32 BTY
A TP... 4 BOFORS (SP)
B TP... 4 BOFORS (Towed)
C TP... 4 POLSTEN (QUAD)

69 BTY
D TP... 4 BOFORS (SP)
E TP... 4 BOFORS (Towed)
F TP... 4 POLSTEN (QUAD)

100 BTY
G TP... 4 BOFORS (SP)
H TP... 4 BOFORS (Towed)
I TP... 4 POLSTEN (QUAD)

I'm thinking this thread will make Mike's ears ring over in Kenya and once he has a look at what a mess we have made of things he will jump in and correct us all :-)
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  #11  
Old 18-10-07, 01:28
Wayne McGee Wayne McGee is offline
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Default Beldam/Bedham

I had oppritunity to look over Brad's shoulder as he was doing his research, and my take was that each battery would have;
4xSP's
4xtowed
4xquad
The above x3
This would give the most flexible mix of AADef, most likely, but not neccassarily, doled out to the Brigade Comds(1xBty ea).
....did that make any sense...if so, can you explain it to me?

Cheers

Wayne
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  #12  
Old 18-10-07, 01:33
Wayne McGee Wayne McGee is offline
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Default Mike not smart

Your post beat my post.

Mike can't be that smart if he got hisself exiled to Kenya. He probanly didn't even notice it wasn't a return ticket.
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  #13  
Old 18-10-07, 05:03
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Default Mike (AKA Gunner) is Lurking

Mike was online earlier today, but I am guessing that he is not feeling well. Reports out of Africa have him ill. More to follow as the situation dictates.
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  #14  
Old 18-10-07, 23:49
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John McGillivray John McGillivray is offline
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From CMHQ Report 141,para 52:

“For the purpose of the assault landing 4 Cdn L.A.A. Regt of 3 Cdn Inf Div was completely equipped with self-propelled guns. They held their complement of 54 by the end of February (C.M.H.Q. file 13/Equip State/1/2:Equipment State, Cdn Army in U.K. as at 29 Feb 44).”

The first photo shows gun B5. I can not read the tac sign on the second photo.

PA 162433


PA 162434
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  #15  
Old 19-10-07, 17:56
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Now Brad, theres a project for you...

I always thought it would be neat to reproduce a SP AA Bofors like in the photos attached. Is anyone aware of an existing original???
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  #16  
Old 19-10-07, 19:42
Rob Fast Rob Fast is offline
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down in Indianna,the WWll Victory museum in Auburn. A rare beast, I did call them a couple of years ago to see if this vehicle might be for sale or trade, a no go! I would love to restore it. Someone with deep pockets needs to bring this back to Canada. Cheers Rob
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watermark.jpg   watermark1.jpg  
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  #17  
Old 20-10-07, 23:43
Ron Perry Ron Perry is offline
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Default Morris-Commercial/bofors

Hi Chris.

To my knowledge there are at least 2 of them in England.
For pictures go to
http://www.wheelsofvictory.com/Brit%20index14.html

Regards
Ron Perry
ron@perry.nl
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