Sea Kings

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...l=968793972154

"Manufactured by AgustaWestland in Britain, the Sea King was developed for the Royal Navy and has been in service for more than 25 years."

Does anybody know if these are the same or similar to our famous Sea Kings? How many of these things does the RN have? How many are in the same state as Canada's Sea Kings?

[Mark W. Tonner]

Alexander;

Here is a link to the Royal Navy website page that deals with their Sea Kings:

http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/2006.html

and a link to the Canadian Navy website page that deals with our Sea Kings:

http://www.navy.forces.gc.ca/mspa_fl...overview_e.asp

Cheers

[Snowtractor]

In fact we are so good at repairing the Seaking, which is an excellent aircraft, that the site that repairs ours just won a huge contract to repair several foreign governments Sea Kings.
It tends to be the lack of commitment to the helicopter itself. Instead of spending the money and rebuilding it from airframe up, like the foreign govs are going to do in Canada, the cdn gov/forces only puts peicemeal new parts in our Sea kings and though inspection and maintenance is good some microfractures cannot be detected and will fail. Rebuild from ground up and problem solved for a fraction of the cost of new helos that have to pay for all the design and prototype and assembly line setup on top of making a profit per unit.
They rebuild the Chinooks from airframe up and they soldier on with us and the US and other countries and they have two rotors and are as old as the Sea King.
Sean

[R Mark Davies]

Apparently the pair lost were Mk 7s - practically brand new. The model used by us these days is the HAR Mk 4, which is an outstanding aircraft - sorry to disappoint you, but you can't blame this one on the evils of defence procurement! Instead of searching for an anti-war political angle in support of your views, perhaps you could spare a thought for the brave Allied aircrew who have already lost their lives?

Breaking news is that an RAF aircraft has now been lost and some of us face a heartbreaking, but necessary, wait for information. We're used to it - we're patient out of necessity.

In the meantime - the press keep on poking their noses in - determined to find out what type of aircraft is missing and the identoty of the aircrew... I assume so that they can let their friends in Baghdad know exactly how many aircrew they are looking for and what sort of mission they were on. Sometimes the naiivety of the press borders on criminality!

Mark

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Snowtractor
They rebuild the Chinooks from airframe up and they soldier on with us and the US and other countries and they have two rotors and are as old as the Sea King.

Sean, actually, I have numerous friends in the U.S. forces, and a very poignant quote regarding the Chinook came out of one of them a couple of days ago, to be echoed by another:

"They've certainly killed more of my friends than any war has..."


The fact is, there are newer, better machines out there, and considering the critical necessity for helos on the modern battlefield, spending a fortune in time and money keeping the older ones flying instead of 'upgrading', is criminal.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Westlands are an amalgamation of Fairey Aviation and Westland [makers of WW2 aircraft] and had for some years the old Fairey factory at Hayes, Middlesex, near where my father worked for EMI. Fairey had premises on the old Heston Aerodrome as well, a short distance away by crow from Hayes. There was then UI think a removal to Weston-super-Mare where the helicopter museum is now and where they have helicopter fly-ins. There was also and still is a Westland factory that was formerly a hovercraft factory at East Cowes on the Isle of Wight that makes components. This was formerly Saunders-Roe and was of course a seaplane then flying boat factory and Fairey and S-R merged, and then they merged with Westlands.


Although components for the Sea Kings may have been sourced from hayes etc. assembly I believe was at Westland's Yeovil, Somerset factory. Westalnds had a history of acquiring a Sikorsky licence to build since the S51 as the "Dragonfly" that served with the Royal Navy, then the Widgeon with the S51 rotor assembly on a new design fuselage, the S55 [Whirlwind, with Alvis Leonides piston and then Bristol-Siddeley Gnome?? [later Rolls-Royce] turbine, then the S58 [Wessex] turbine 'copter, then the S61 civilian helicopter and Sea King military version, and so on. The only other licence that comes to mind in historical terms was the Bell one to produce Westland-Bell 47G piston 'copters as the "Sioux" for the Army and RAF. That said I am not that certain whether they were based on the Agusta-Bell 47G and therefore the licence was a sub-licence!

Westlands did indeed sell Sea Kings built in Yeovil around the world. My father worked during the Falkands War for EMI when they designed the Searchwater radar to the Sea King fuselage to create the AEW version. Searchwater was also used in the Nimrod.

On another note our thoughts go out to the families of the pilot and Navigator of the Tornado from Marham, Norfolk, shot down by a Patriot apparently under US control. So far we have lost British personnel in the crash of a Sea Knight, two Sea Kings and now a Tornado, and none by enemy action...one by friendly action. The 28-year old Royal Marine was in barracks in Poole, 35 miles away, and had a wife and children. RIP.

[Snowtractor]

"They've certainly killed more of my friends than any war has..."


The fact is, there are newer, better machines out there, and considering the critical necessity for helos on the modern battlefield, spending a fortune in time and money keeping the older ones flying instead of 'upgrading', is criminal

you're right to a point Geoff. The Osprey is trying to kill as many marines as it can. Also when the craft is rebuilt from frame up , it is a new aircraft stripped of every wire bolt etc. Heck we've got a beautiful Piper clipper from the '40's flying around here that had te same process and I would fly in it before some of these tired 185's .
Its really tough to say whether its the hours or demands or age of the aircraft that is causing them to crash. are there fewer aircraft and crew and so greater demand and sorties are placed on the remainders and there for more accidents. What is the per hour crash rate? Also are they trying to do missions that the helicopter wasn't intended for. Ie landing on a carrier deck is a lot further from injesting seawater in the engines than on a frigate, etc. .
I agree we should buy newer , more powerful with greater lfit/power ratios . I am just saying that the Seaking is a good aircraft and is not inherently unsafe, there is just more to the equation that we may not ( probably not know , knowing governments ) .
Sean

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Sean, it was a good aircraft in Vietnam... and yet even then with well-known critical parameters regards autorotation vis-a-vis airspeed & altitude. Lose an engine at such and such an altitude and above or below such and such a speed, and the crew is TOAST. They glide like rocks.

The sophistication of more modern machines includes narrowing those gaps in the performance and reliability - or survivability - curve.