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Old 21-11-04, 02:45
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Default help ID 2 trucks please

while going through the AWM data banks I discovered the following two pics and am puzzled about what they are. Can anyone help please.

Pic one - they are radar prime movers from what I can tell and I have other pics of them as well
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Old 21-11-04, 02:47
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pic two (the first two in the line)
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Old 21-11-04, 06:13
Bill Murray Bill Murray is offline
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Cliff:
A very quick response as I just arrived home from California and it is midnight here and we have been flying all day.

Pic #1 is of an FWD and I will try to pin down the model tomorrow.
Pic #2 are of International Harvester trucks, probably D-15 of 1937-1938 vintage but I will, again, revert tomorrow with better ID.
Bill
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Old 21-11-04, 06:52
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thanks Bill. I have now solved the puzzle also of an unidentified truck that was at Kingaroy in Ken Hughes collection. It was the remains of one of those FWD trucks.

looking forward to your more detailed reply.

cheers
Cliff

PS> how are you doing now?
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Old 21-11-04, 12:27
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Default ?

I agree FWD at first glance! The third vehicle in, second pic..is that a Ford?
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Old 21-11-04, 18:21
Nick Balmer Nick Balmer is offline
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Default Third vehicle in 2 photo

Hello,

I beleive it is the same type of Ford V8 that was used by the LRDG as Pilot Cars.

Regards

Nick Balmer
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Old 21-11-04, 20:52
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Default Re: ?

Quote:
Originally posted by David_Hayward
I agree FWD at first glance! The third vehicle in, second pic..is that a Ford?
yes David 1939 Ford, probably an Australian bodied ute.

thanks for the Help guys I appreciate it

Cliff
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Old 21-11-04, 23:15
Bill Murray Bill Murray is offline
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Cliff:
Your FWD is a 3 ton 4x4 HAR 01 as supplied to Australia with a steel Budd body and the spare and a winch mounted between the cab and the GS body. Also supplied as a tractor (2 versions) which I have seen described as a HAR 03. Now, I just to have to pin down the exact details of the Inters.

I am doing fine. Will report on the last gathering of Dad's friends in the Sergeant's Mess sometime later today or tomorrow. PS, got your disc and am just about to review it. More stuff is coming your way tomorrow.
Bill
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Old 22-11-04, 00:46
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thanks Bill
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Old 22-11-04, 20:08
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Default British contract?

I query whether the Australian delivery was a British order for Australia placed through FWD Auto Company Limited in Kitchener, Ontario? 'Tractor 4 x 4 for Semi-trailer 6 ton 2 wheel', as per Contract SM/CA2420. Are those searchlights at the back of the truck line-up?

Last edited by David_Hayward (RIP); 22-11-04 at 23:25.
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Old 22-11-04, 20:36
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David yes those are search lights in the background. These trucks were used as prime movers for them.

I found 4 or 5 photos of them in the AWM data base. Most of them were taken in Australia itself.

thanks
Cliff
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Old 23-11-04, 00:09
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Cliff:

David and I are in agreement, there were two/perhaps three versions of the HAR FWD, the GS version and two different tractor versions. Over time we will sort out the two tractors.

As to the Inters, they could be 1937/38/39 models and it is hard to tell as the US sheetmetal was almost identical for those years and then we have the additional problem that a lot of overseas produced American vehicles used tools and dies that were left over from US production so a 1939 model of "X" producer might well use old style sheet metal from a year or two earlier.

But, in the end, I think we are close enough and I doubt seriously if you will ever find much of a basis to model either of the vehicles without a hell of a lot of scratch building and resin casting.

Hope this helps.
Bill
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Old 23-11-04, 00:26
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Quote:
But, in the end, I think we are close enough and I doubt seriously if you will ever find much of a basis to model either of the vehicles without a hell of a lot of scratch building and resin casting.
The International NO but I am thinking about the FWD though
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Old 23-11-04, 00:54
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Cliff:

Best of luck, mate!!!!

Two things. It is now 1850 hours Monday the 22nd Nov here as I type. What time and day is it where you are down in OZ??
I should PM the other, but what with Dad's passing and all I am a bit behind in sending models out. My brother Dan, he was also out for the funeral, is my shipping/receiving type and also just returned to Atlanta. We will try do a double shipment this week.

I am working on some ideas for the FWD and if it works out I will pass it on to you.
Bill
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Old 23-11-04, 01:19
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In reply to your time it is 1015 hours Tuesday 23 Nov here as I type this.

At this moment in time I have 3 models on the go plus another in the wings waiting on info. After that I have 3 or 4 lined up and then an NR Mack I hope so the FWD is a little way off as I am thinking of an Indian Pattern Ambulance for the LRDG chev as well.

What I need is about 2 months with no illness to catch up.

The Mack NR plans are on the last disk I sent you.

thanks & regards
Cliff

PS> I am very sorry to hear about your Dad.
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Old 24-11-04, 14:15
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Those Int's are not exactly D-15's. The windshield is too narrow, more like a K model, and they have wing windows in the doors. The parklights on top of the headlights show that they have sealed-beam headlights, which makes them 1940 or newer. Australian production models?
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Old 24-11-04, 14:21
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Sorry, meant to say "Parklights on the fenders". Also, the light wheels show them to be D-2 half-tons.
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Old 24-11-04, 15:09
Bill Murray Bill Murray is offline
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cletrac:

I stand corrected on the Inters and happily so. I can only plead that I made my post at 0015 hours after being on a plane from California all day. Shows my loyalty to MLU that I could not wait to get back into the fray.

A D-2 it is and as you say most likely a 1940 model. Fred Crismon's history of IH shows 1940 light models both with and without the separate parking lights, in particular an Aussie Ute without them. Having seen this before, it is entirely feasable to me to assume that perhaps very early production models may have been supplied here and there with the older headlamp system. Inters were assembled in Australia since at least the thirties and are so today as far as I know. I have some pics from the AWM site and I believe the name on the factory was McKormick-Deering which was one of the predecessor companies to International Harvester that at first built only agricultural tractors etc.

Thanks for the correction and I will be more careful next time or at least try to post when I am in more control of my faculties.



Bill
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Old 25-11-04, 02:02
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I don't mean to belabour the point, but those "D-2"s must be Aussie versions. The windshield on a D-2 gets wider as it nears the outer edge. Those appear to have later "K" type glass. Also, D-2's don't have wing windows. McCormick-Deering built tractors well into the 'fifties, maybe they built trucks Down Under? I know you "upside down"guys build some cool machinery loosely based on American designs.
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Old 25-11-04, 03:20
Bill Murray Bill Murray is offline
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David:

I think we are both correct, if that is the right way to describe it.
I agree that the "vent windows" are possibly unique to non US production at least according to the photo records I have.

If we just talk about International Harvester vehicles, I have photos of same from not only the US and Commonwealth countries that show a lot of detail variations but also from such countries as Finland, Norway, Belgium etc. that have one heck of a lot of such minor variations. Particularly as regards the cabs and bodies. Assuming that a hell of a lot of chassis/cowl exports took place in the late 1930's, early 1940's, one could imagine any number of different possibilities as regards the cabs in particular and of course the various bodies as well.

Sadly, the AWM photo repository does not do a really great job of identifying the vehicles in their photos and uses fairly generic terms, often not even identifying the makers. It is left to us enthusiasts to try to sort out the end game ID.

Let's keep trying.........


Bill
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Old 25-11-04, 03:25
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Quote:
Sadly, the AWM photo repository does not do a really great job of identifying the vehicles in their photos and uses fairly generic terms, often not even identifying the makers. It is left to us enthusiasts to try to sort out the end game ID.
Also you can find better pics of what you are looking for under very odd search terms.

search for trucks WW2 and you get a lot but not many pics of 'New' trucks. But search under 'Lorries' WW2 and there they are. Then search under 'salvage' and yet more appear that are not in the other two searches.

So to find what I want I am always thinking up new topics to search under.
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