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  #1  
Old 02-06-20, 01:28
Lionelgee's Avatar
Lionelgee Lionelgee is offline
Lionel G. Evans
 
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Default What Size KVA Generator for MIG Welder

Hello All,

What capacity in KVA would be needed to run a Lincoln Speedtec 200C MIG Welder?

The welder's specifications are:


Speedtec 180C, 200C, 215C Product Info Operator Manual Search

Input Power: 115-230/1/50/60

Rated Output: 200A/24V@25%

Input Current: 16A

Output Range: 20-200A

Solid Wire Size Range: 0.6-1.0 mm

Cored Wire Size Range: 0.9-1.1 mm

Wire Feed Speed Range: 1-15 m/min

Dimensions (H x W x D): 396 mm x 246 mm x 527 mm
Net Weight: 17.2 kg

The SPEEDTEC® 180C & 200C units have been equipped with Power Factor Correction (PFC), a feature which supports high output welding current from a single phase 230V1Ph 50/60Hz supply allowing it to be used with a long (up to max 100m) primary extension cable

Power Factor Correction (PFC) More Welding Power, Energy and Cost savings, Generator Compatible.

I have had to delay getting my shed wired for electricity including some 15 amp circuits for my MIG welder. In the meantime I would like to get a generator so I can use the welder and plasma cutter - both are rated at 15 amps.

So what range of KVA capacity generator would be suitable to run the welder?

Kind regards
Lionel
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  #2  
Old 02-06-20, 02:29
rob love rob love is offline
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It's amazing what some of these "smart" welders are doing these days with so little current draw. I have been using a 175A Lincoln for the past two decades, and it will draw over 22 Amps with 220V supply.



The 16A draw at 125V on your welder is pretty mild for a welder. Consider that the 115V outlets are normally 15A supply. You could theoretically get away with something in the 2.5 or 3kw range, but I would suggest something in the 5kw range would give you some breathing room in case you want to run some lights, a fan, or some other items concurrently. Your welder should ideally be on a 20A circuit as opposed to a 15A.



I have a 5kw generator that came with this house (last guy bought it for the y2K scare). I have used it for a few projects where I did not have electricity, and it has never hesitated. We had the power go out once in the winter where after a few hours I finally dragged it from the shed out to the house to hook up (we have a generator panel installed) but the power came on before I could get it fully hooked. It is wired just for the water pump, the sewage pump, and a couple plugs in the kitchen so the coffee pot can be run. Wood is the source of alternate heat...anything less than a trailer mounted generator would not run an electric furnace here in Manitoba.



Most of the small generators you buy are somewhat over rated and not really meant for long duty. Most of the military generators are somewhat under-rated, and will give better service. Getting parts for them is not as easy.

Last edited by rob love; 03-06-20 at 02:23.
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  #3  
Old 02-06-20, 02:29
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Lionel,

check the fine print as i am fairly sure the welding duty cycle will be lowered if run on 115v rather than 230v.

That will be a limiting factor on the thickness of material and length of welding times.

Unless you facility is 110 metres long MIG used outdoor is less than great unless you crank up the shielding gas as the breeze will diffuse.

Welding outdoors in bright sunlight will bring other fun times like the glare.

Stay under your roof and out of the wind.

my 2 cents worth, hope it helps
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  #4  
Old 02-06-20, 04:47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Craig View Post
Lionel,

check the fine print as i am fairly sure the welding duty cycle will be lowered if run on 115v rather than 230v.

That will be a limiting factor on the thickness of material and length of welding times.

Unless you facility is 110 metres long MIG used outdoor is less than great unless you crank up the shielding gas as the breeze will diffuse.

Welding outdoors in bright sunlight will bring other fun times like the glare.

Stay under your roof and out of the wind.

my 2 cents worth, hope it helps
Hello Rob and Robin,

Thank you for your replies.

Robin the welding will be done inside the shed. With the generator sitting just outside the door so I can still breathe clean air inside the shed. It will also be powering some decent lighting as well - while working on vehicles.

The grand plan is to get the shed hooked up to mains power - with 15 amp circuits - it has just been delayed for a while. However, I have a nice welder that I am very keen to start using. A generator will help fill in the gap until the shed is wired up.

Kind regards
Lionel
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  #5  
Old 02-06-20, 16:55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionelgee View Post
The welder's specifications are:

Input Current: 16A
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionelgee
The grand plan is to get the shed hooked up to mains power - with 15 amp circuits
I see a problem here, do you?
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  #6  
Old 02-06-20, 19:12
rob love rob love is offline
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I have always been surprised that so many of the welders (and other shop items like chop saws etc) require more than 15 amps yet only have 15 amp plugs on them. The threat of fire aside, it is very annoying when you are laying a nice bead of weld to have the machine suddenly shut down.
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  #7  
Old 03-06-20, 01:55
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Lionelgee Lionelgee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Smith View Post
I see a problem here, do you?
Hmmm 15 amp circuit and a 16 amp input. I just checked and Hayman's sell RCBO C Curve Type A 1P 16A 240V 30mA 6kA 1MOD DIN Mount
Brand Hager
Range onekombo
P/N HAGADC316T

Therefore an upgrade in the future wiring specifications from the first thought of 15 amps up to 16 amps. As I am not an electrician would this change in wire specifications cover the difference?

The blurb states: Input Power: 115-230/1/50/60
Power Factor Correction (PFC). More Welding Power, Energy and Cost savings, Generator Compatible

Would the PFC make up for the missing amp?

Kind regards
Lionel
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Last edited by Lionelgee; 03-06-20 at 02:02.
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  #8  
Old 03-06-20, 10:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionelgee View Post
Therefore an upgrade in the future wiring specifications from the first thought of 15 amps up to 16 amps. As I am not an electrician would this change in wire specifications cover the difference?

Kind regards
Lionel
If they tell you it needs 16A to run, then make sure it gets all that and more.
Why dance around on the threshold and risk poor performance?

If the shed is not yet wired, just put in 2 20A circuits, one each end of the shed and be done with it. The labour will be exactly the same and the difference in wire price will be neglible for the few metres required.

If you can fit it in the budget now, even installing 3 phase will be cheaper at this point in time than in the future.

There may come a time when you might be expanding your workshop and be looking at a mill or lathe, that's not the time to be forced to rewire the shed because you didn't allow enough capacity.
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  #9  
Old 03-06-20, 11:29
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Hello Tony,

As previously mentioned - I am not an electrician. If fitting 15 amp circuits is one amp too few; then using my basic mathematics - would getting 20 amps circuits fitted be 4 amps too much?

Or does the welder regulate itself via some internal mechanism and only utilise 16 out of the 20 amps? With the four extra amps is there a risk of burning or overloading the welder with too many amps?

Go back to the "I am not an electrician" part...

Kind regards
Lionel
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  #10  
Old 03-06-20, 12:03
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Yes, in exactly the same way that you can plug a 2400 watt heater or a 5 watt phone charger into a regular household 10A powerpoint, the device (or "load") will only draw the current it needs.

But if it needs more current than any part of the circuit can supply (any part = supply cabling, circuit breaker/fuse, power point, plug, power lead to device), then you are going to either trip the circuit breaker or blow the fuse, or cause overheating to wires or plugs that can lead to fires.

A 20A circuit will be sufficient to allow a total of 20 Amps of current for all devices connected to it to flow through it safely, it will not "pump" 20 Amps into anything that can't handle it. In fact you could still plug in a 40watt light globe into it if you wanted to.
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Old 03-06-20, 12:13
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is offline
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Think of the circuit size as "maximum capacity". More capacity doesn't hurt, too little can be a problem (just like my paycheck). You can plug a tiny incandesant (eg. 40W) light bulb into the same circuit that will run a toaster (eg. 1500W), each will run without problem.
Taken to extremes, more capacity can be a problem. There is a bit more cost due to cost of wire. At least in North America, there can be different shape plugs and outlets for different capacities that may limit what can be plugged into the outlet. If a short should develop, the larger wire and breaker means there could be a lot of power (creates more heat and shock hazard) flowing in places you don't want it (including through you).
In general I agree with the idea if having some surplus capacity on every circuit in case you should ever buy something that needs a bit more push. Just don't go crazy....


On edit, Tony posted as I was still typing (slowly). Funny that we both chose the 40W bulb as an example.
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  #12  
Old 03-06-20, 13:57
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Hello Grant and Tony,

Thank you for your patience and explanations. They are greatly appreciated.

Kind regards
Lionel
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  #13  
Old 03-06-20, 15:38
Paul Singleton Paul Singleton is offline
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Default Too much power?

In addition to Grant’s post, when I was working my employer purchased a plasma cutter for use in the shop. An electrician was called to install a second 230 volt 50 amp circuit to feed the new plasma cutter. When checking the specifications the plasma cutter was rated at 230 volts and 30 amps, but had a 50 amp plug on it. The electrician was concerned because if the plasma cutter rated at 30 amps was powered by a 50 amp circuit there was a risk of the plasma cutter catching on fire if it developed a short as it may not trip the circuit breaker. On further reading of the manual it was found that the manufacturer used a 50 amp plug for convenience to the user so it could plug into a standard welder receptacle, but the machine itself had an internal 30 amp fuse on the power supply. The electrician had not heard of this before and thought it was unusual.

Paul
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Old 03-06-20, 16:01
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Another thing that is commonly done here is that when you wire a shop, although you may be putting in 15 amp circuits (which will use 14 gauge wire) you use 12 gauge wire. That way, if (and usually more like when) the time comes that you need to increase the capacity of a circuit, you just have to change the receptacle and breaker. If your wiring is inside the walls you can leave it alone.
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Old 03-06-20, 17:14
Grant Bowker Grant Bowker is offline
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I believe household voltage in Australia is 230V 50Hz like much of Europe rather than 110V 60Hz like Canada/USA so the wire gauge required may be different (same wattage, smaller wire gauge required with higher voltage, again - no harm in more capacity than the minimum).
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Old 03-06-20, 18:43
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It is the inrush current that trips the breaker.
If you device is hovering around 16A a 15A breaker may or may not hold it. A better choice is to use a 20A circuit.
As it is not being used continuously at the 16A level, not really a concern.
Now that being said, as in the above post, placing a device such as the plasma cutter on a 50A circuit is just plain dangerous. Upsizing the breaker for a device meant to run 30A is a fire waiting to happen or at the minimum, potential damage to occur in your equipment during an overload situation
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