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  #61  
Old 23-02-05, 21:18
Vets Dottir
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Default Ok

Thanks for the explanation Mark ... though it STILL seems odd terminology, especially the "strength" part. Ah well ...

Gee... now whoever could have SO mixed up the files? Hmmmm (sorry bout that)

Have you been enjoying the dental records?

BTW ... I'm really glad you're posting this stuff for others to see if they're interested. It will give some people an idea, as well, of some of what to expect in their relatives records if they've never seen these things before.

Karmen
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  #62  
Old 23-02-05, 21:23
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Default Re: Re: Rifleman Smith, Edward

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Letter (dated: 31 May, 1945) received by Edward's parents from the Director of Records (NDHQ-Ottawa), indicating that he may be dead, based on information received since the letter of 11 Oct 44.
Then Grandpa probably knew his son had been executed ... though verification of that didn't happen for a long time.

K.
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  #63  
Old 23-02-05, 21:36
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Default Re: Ok

Quote:
Originally posted by Vets Dottir
Thanks for the explanation Mark ... though it STILL seems odd terminology, especially the "strength" part. Ah well ...
Hi Karmen;

The most basic meaning of 'strength', in regards to an infantry battalion, in this context, is, "actual live bodies on the ground doing the job".

Cheers

P.S. - if still :, please consult the "Jifferoo", or if that doesn't produce an answer.....maybe ask your two 24 and 7 bodyguards (I've forgotten their names, but I think one has a Sten....)
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  #64  
Old 23-02-05, 21:38
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Default Re: Re: Re: Rifleman Smith, Edward

Quote:
Originally posted by Vets Dottir
Then Grandpa probably knew his son had been executed ... though verification of that didn't happen for a long time.

K.
In light of the letter of 31 May 45 and the telegram of 04 Jun 45, I'd say yes, I think he knew.
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  #65  
Old 23-02-05, 21:49
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Post Re: Rifleman Smith, Edward

Memorandum (dated: 3 December, 1945) that was sent to the District Chaplains (RC) & (P), of the Military Districts across Canada, from the Director of Records (NDHQ-Ottawa), asking them (in para 4 of the Memorandum), if they would deliver the letters that were about to be sent out to the various Next-of-Kin, of the soldiers concerned, throughout Canada. As you can see from the Memorandum, there appears to have been 112 of these letters about to be delivered.
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memo - 3 dec 45.jpg  
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  #66  
Old 23-02-05, 21:54
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Default Re: Rifleman Smith, Edward

Reference the Memorandum of 3 Dec 45, sent out to the District Chaplains (RC) & (P), of the Military Districts across Canada, from the Director of Records (NDHQ-Ottawa), the letter (dated: 6 December, 1945) that Edward's mother received:
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letter - 6 dec 45.jpg  
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  #67  
Old 23-02-05, 21:55
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Default Re: Re: Ok

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Hi Karmen;

The most basic meaning of 'strength', in regards to an infantry battalion, in this context, is, "actual live bodies on the ground doing the job".

Cheers

P.S. - if still :, please consult the "Jifferoo", or if that doesn't produce an answer.....maybe ask your two 24 and 7 bodyguards (I've forgotten their names, but I think one has a Sten....)
I think of "strength" as meaning "ALIVE" bodies ... but in this case they meant TOS on an "alive" active 'list".

Rupert (my favorite) and Tom hold gaurd devotedly, but unfortunately are mute so can not answer questions.

Yes ... there's no doubt left that Grandpa (WW1 RWR's) knew. He just didn't know the details ... or everything that came after. Granny was on her own with it all.

I like how you're chronologically posting this stuff (or trying to in spite of my messing with the file). So much easier to see this this way rather than pages and pages of papers all over the place.

Thanks!
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  #68  
Old 23-02-05, 22:02
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Talking Re: Re: Re: Ok

Quote:
Originally posted by Vets Dottir
Rupert (my favorite) and Tom hold gaurd devotedly, but unfortunately are mute so can not answer questions.
...and having to listen to MA ...YAP, YAP, YAP, YAP,....I'd bet that they wish they were deaf also.........

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  #69  
Old 23-02-05, 22:04
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Default Re: Re: Rifleman Smith, Edward

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Reference the Memorandum of 3 Dec 45, sent out to the District Chaplains (RC) & (P), of the Military Districts across Canada, from the Director of Records (NDHQ-Ottawa), the letter (dated: 6 December, 1945) that Edward's mother received:
THIS letter you just posted was the one I read that made me think that Grandpa never knew his son was executed as a POW... your earlier eye-witness account post shows me differently... (I don't know how I didn't absorb that info when I read through the papers long ago)

I really appreciate how you are adding info about all the correspondence, like who sent what to whom and when ... dept's, people, etc. You make all of this stuff clearer for me, Mark.
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  #70  
Old 23-02-05, 22:09
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Ok

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
...and having to listen to MA ...YAP, YAP, YAP, YAP,....I'd bet that they wish they were deaf also.........

Well Master Mark-O ... if you think I'm going to holster my frying pan just because you're being nice right now, ya better think again I don't work on bribes and get blinded by niceness Watch yore ankles when you see me bud

Gawd ... the nerve of some peoples Old farts!
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  #71  
Old 23-02-05, 22:13
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Talking Re: Re: Re: Rifleman Smith, Edward

Quote:
Originally posted by Vets Dottir
... I don't know how I didn't absorb that info when I read through the papers long ago
... on account of OLD EYES, OLD AGE....BRAIN CONSTANTLY FROZEN, due to living in WINTERPEG..... should I go on

Quote:
Originally posted by Vets Dottir
... You make all of this stuff clearer for me
Thick as MUD is it....... and getting thicker......

P.S. is taking a break now... time for a .........
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  #72  
Old 23-02-05, 22:16
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Talking Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ok

Quote:
Originally posted by Vets Dottir
Well Master Mark-O ... if you think I'm going to holster my frying pan just because you're being nice right now, ya better think again I don't work on bribes and get blinded by niceness Watch yore ankles when you see me bud

Gawd ... the nerve of some peoples Old farts!
LOL! ... just goes to show, you can dress me up, but you can't take me anywhere......
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  #73  
Old 23-02-05, 22:39
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ok

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
LOL! ... just goes to show, you can dress me up, but you can't take me anywhere......
Ya got THAT right

Time for me to

Thats ok ... I know how to be rude to your inner rude dude,
...and nice to your inner nice dude.... both/and and like for like
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  #74  
Old 23-02-05, 22:51
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Post Re: Rifleman Smith, Edward

Karmen;

Having now gone through the file you sent me and for those that have followed this thread and the original thread dealing with Edward's death, (Books photos about executed POWS June 1944) that can be found on the WW2 Military History & Equipment forum, which can be found here, I'll post the last correspondence, that both pertains to his death and gives us the clearest picture of how he was killed. There is nothing more in the file, except for the below mentioned.

The attached correspondence is from the Records Office CMHQ(London) to the Director of Records NDHQ(Ottawa), and contains the statement of a witness to Edward's (and the others) death on 8 June, 1944, after having been captured.
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statement - 14 jun 45.jpg  
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  #75  
Old 23-02-05, 23:09
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Default Well...

Mark,

What can I say. You have gone to great lengths and out of your way in time and efforts for me (and for others) in here. I only hope everyone appreciates this as much as I do ... and really, words aren't enough.

Have your 's and coffees ... and sit back in satisfaction of another days good deeds and work ...

I have a lot of reviewing to do ... both this thread and the other ... as well as through my correspondences to various people over the last couple of years ... and I have those "projects" (for lack of a better word) to complete.

Karmen
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  #76  
Old 23-02-05, 23:57
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Post Re: Well...

Your Welcome.

Cheers
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  #77  
Old 24-02-05, 04:09
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Default Re: Re: Well...

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Your Welcome.

Cheers
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  #78  
Old 25-02-05, 02:21
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Default Lt. Ferguson

Of interest, the following is found on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site:
Name: FERGUSON, WILLIAM STEWART
Initials: W S
Nationality: Canadian
Rank: Lieutenant
Regiment: Royal Winnipeg Rifles, R.C.I.C.
Date of Death: 06/06/1944
Additional information: Son of Anne W. Pullen; husband of Masala Margaret Ferguson, of Vancouver, British Columbia.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: XIII. D. 8.
Cemetery: BENY-SUR-MER CANADIAN WAR CEMETERY, REVIERS

The dates don't match, but are close, and all the other details fit.
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  #79  
Old 25-02-05, 02:23
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Default Lt Barker

Further information from the CWGC:
Name: BARKER, REGINALD DONALD
Initials: R D
Nationality: Canadian
Rank: Lieutenant
Regiment: Royal Canadian Artillery
Unit Text: 3 Anti-Tank Regt.
Age: 36
Date of Death: 08/06/1944
Additional information: Son of George W. and Eva Barker, of Toronto, Ontario. B.A. (Queen's University, Kingston).
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: XIII. F. 16.
Cemetery: BENY-SUR-MER CANADIAN WAR CEMETERY, REVIERS
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  #80  
Old 25-02-05, 02:41
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Default Re: Lt. Ferguson

Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Alexander
Of interest, the following is found on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site:
Name: FERGUSON, WILLIAM STEWART
Initials: W S
Nationality: Canadian
Rank: Lieutenant
Regiment: Royal Winnipeg Rifles, R.C.I.C.
Date of Death: 06/06/1944
Additional information: Son of Anne W. Pullen; husband of Masala Margaret Ferguson, of Vancouver, British Columbia.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: XIII. D. 8.
Cemetery: BENY-SUR-MER CANADIAN WAR CEMETERY, REVIERS

The dates don't match, but are close, and all the other details fit.
Hi Bill,

It looks like this Lieutenant W. S. Ferguson was killed in action on D-Day ... it also looks like he was laid to rest in the same section of Beny Sur Mer as my Uncle ... maybe they knew and trained with each other, even landed with the same company, my Uncle Ed making it through til the 8th, and Lt Ferguson sadly was killed the first day, along with my other Uncle Phillip. It's hard not to wonder if they all trained together and landed with the same Company isn't it? My dad's brother also was overseas with the Royal Winnipeg Rifles, and came home. I imagine all these men, or many of them, knew each other. Other Uncle's I'm interested in finding out who they served with too ... I'm blown away by how many of my male Uncles were with the Royal Winnipeg Rifles, so maybe my other Uncles were too? I want to know.

There WAS another soldier, last name FERGUSON (who I believe was a good friend of Cliff Chadderton) who was one of the executed soldiers, but he was with a different group ... I'd have to dig out, or search the other thread, to find this information.

Karmen
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  #81  
Old 25-02-05, 04:07
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Default Re: Re: Lt. Ferguson

Quote:
Originally posted by Vets Dottir
... I'm blown away by how many of my male Uncles were with the Royal Winnipeg Rifles....
Methinks some things are better left unsaid....
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  #82  
Old 25-02-05, 11:51
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Default Dates of Death

Hello Karmen, The dates of death were sometimes not known or confused in the fog of battle. It is possible that the date is an error. Eye witness evidence may also be wrong; it is not as reliable as suggested in law. Further research on Ferguson and Barker may reveal more about the executions or may indicate that the date of death was in error.
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  #83  
Old 25-02-05, 13:42
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Default Lt W.S. Ferguson

Karman,

I just received a copy of Cliff Chadderton’s book “Excuse us! Herr Schicklgruber”. The Lt Ferguson that he refers to is William .S. (Bill) Ferguson. This is from page 42-43 of his book:

“Later that day, 58 Winnipeg Rifles and others were headed into a field south of the Chateau d’Audrieu. The notorious German SS Gen Wilhelm Mohnke saw the Canadians as he was driving by. He lined up two mobile Jerry vehicles armed with fixed Spandau MGs. Two officers (Lt Bill Ferguson, RWR and Tom Windsor, Sherbrooke Fusiliers) told the captured men to be quiet as their lives might be saved. The two courageous officers were cut down as they started towards Mohnke. The rest of the RWRs and several soldiers from other units had been disarmed and personal effects taken from them. They were practically annihilated by murderous MG fire as they scattered. Most were killed (five escaped).

“Bill Ferguson is commemorated by the naming of Ferguson Island (63 N/11) in Morin Lake, Manitoba.”

Note that Chadderton made a mistake by including Lt Tom Windsor. Lt Windsor was one of the Canadian soldiers murdered at the Abbaye d’ Ardenne, and not at Chateau d’Audrieu. He must have meant Lt. R.D. Barker of the 3rd Anti-Tank Regiment.

John
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  #84  
Old 25-02-05, 14:09
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Default

Karman I know that you have this book, but for those who do not, here is the account from Howard Margolian’s book “Conduct Unbecoming” (p90-94). It seems that Lt W.S. Ferguson and Rfn Edward Smith were in the same group.

“In contrast with the murder and mayhem perpetrated at the headquarters of Gerhard Bremer's 12th Reconnaissance Battalion, the treatment accorded to Canadian POWs at the HQ of Bernhard Siebken's 2nd Battalion on 8 June was downright civilized. A large group of Canadians, in excess of a hundred, was transferred without incident from the 2nd Battalion to the command post of the 26th Panzer Grenadier Regiment, which was located a few miles to the south, in the tiny hamlet of Le Haut du Bosq. Meanwhile, a smaller group, totalling forty prisoners - Lieutenant William Ferguson, Sergeant James Reid, Corporals George Brown, Roger Firman, Clare Kines, James Kyle, Hector McLean, and Robert Scott, Lance Corporals Stewart Culleton and John Hill, and Privates Walter Booth, Ernest Bradley, Walter Daniels, Arthur Desjarlais, Gordon Ferris, Robert Findlay, Lant Freeman, Lawrence Guiboche, Charles Horton, Henry Jones, Elmer Lefort, Gordon Lewis, John MacDougall, Angus MacLeod, Frederick Marych, Wesley Morrison, Percy Parisian, Alfred Peterson, Frank Ryck-man, Kjartan Sigurdson, Edward Smith, and John Thompson, all of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles, Private Richard Smith of the Queen's Own Rifles, Lieutenant Reginald Barker, Sergeant William Beresford, and Gunners Hilliard Birston, Weldon Clark, Thomas Grant, and Alvin Harkness of the 3rd Canadian Anti-Tank Regiment, and Private Donald Burnett of the Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa - was held at 2nd Battalion headquarters pending the return of the Feldgendarmerie escort. During the interval, Siebken's men gave the Canadians water and dispensed first aid to their wounded. In view of the solicitude shown the prisoners, one might have expected their conveyance to the rear to have proceeded uneventfully, in much the same fashion as had that of the earlier group. Unfortunately, although through no fault of Siebken's, this did not prove to be the case. For the forty Canadians being held at the Moulin farm, the change in their circumstances would be sudden, terrifying, and devastating.

The first hint at the turn for the worse in the prisoners' fortunes came a few hours after their capture. Late in the afternoon on 8 June, Siebken received a call from his regimental commander, SS Lieutenant Colonel Wilhelm Mohnke. Reporting that he had taken custody of the large batch of POWs dispatched by Siebken earlier in the day, Mohnke, who was obviously annoyed, told him not to send back so many prisoners. The battalion commander took this to mean that prisoners should not be taken in the first place, and, if they were, that they should be shot immediately after capture. Surprised and repulsed by Mohnke's barbarous and patently illegal order, Siebken quickly regained his composure and replied that he was going to send prisoners to the rear all the same. Later in the evening, he did just that. Upon learning of the return of the Feldgendarmerie escort, Siebken ordered the forty Canadians brought from the barn in which they had been held to the front of the Moulin farmhouse. After looking over the prisoners, whose ranks included at least two stretcher cases, Siebken had them form up in a column under the guard of seven or eight men. The escort consisted both of Feldgendarmerie and regular SS troops. Sometime after 8:00 PM, Dietrich Schnabel, Siebken's special missions officer, sent the prisoners on their way.

The column proceeded southward along a path that led out of 2nd Battalion headquarters, past fields in which crops were already standing. Had the prisoners continued on the footpath, they eventually would have reached the Caen-Fontenay-le-Pesnel road. By crossing this artery and continuing for another quarter mile or so, they then would have come to a secondary road that ran directly into Le Haut du Bosq. A mere one and a half miles more and they would have arrived at Mohnke's headquarters. Despite its proximity, the Canadians never reached their intended destination.

Around 9:00 PM, at a spot just north of the Caen-Fontenay road, the column of prisoners was intercepted by a staff car. As the column halted, an officer resplendent in SS uniform and overcoat got out and strode over to the sergeant in charge of the escort. It was difficult to make out the officer's face in the enveloping darkness, but those who survived the encounter with him will never forget his demeanour. From the outset, the officer was very agitated, and he seemed to become increasingly incensed as the conversation with the NCO went on. Two of the prisoners later recalled that the officer had yelled at the escort leader, while another was of the view that he had actually threatened him. Whatever the case, after a few minutes the martinet abruptly terminated the conversation, angrily pointed in the direction of the Caen-Fontenay road, and issued a torrent of orders to the hapless NCO.

The sudden appearance of the officer and his subsequent violent outburst must have been profoundly disconcerting to the Canadian prisoners. At least a few of them guessed his real intentions. Though he did not understand German, Private Gordon Ferris of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles remembered thinking that the guards were going to kill all of the prisoners after the way that the officer had carried on.1 This opinion was shared by Corporal Hector McLean, also of the Winnipegs. According to McLean, his worst fears were confirmed by Lieutenant Reg Barker of the 3rd Anti-Tank Regiment, who was one of two officers among the forty Canadian POWs (the other was Lieutenant William Ferguson of the Winnipegs). The American-born Barker, who spoke some German, told McLean that the escorts had in fact been ordered to kill the prisoners, but he promised that he would try to talk them out of it."

Following the officer's orders, the SS guards escorted the Canadians to within sight of the Caen-Fontenay road. As the column approached the road, a large number of vehicles, including tanks and half-tracks, could be seen heading in an easterly direction. Heartened by the sight of all this firepower, a couple of the escorts waved and yelled out 'Panzer! Panzer!' Continuing on its way, the column was marched southward until it got to within a hundred yards of the convoy. Halted at a road junction less than a mile northeast of the village of Fontenay-le-Pesnel, the prisoners were diverted in a westerly direction into a grassy area adjacent to a grainfield. After going another fifty yards or so, they were ordered to sit down, facing east. Ominously, the prisoners were bunched together in several rows, with the stretcher cases placed in the middle. While the Canadians sat and waited in anxious silence, the Germans deployed menacingly around them.

The prisoners' stay in the field must have seemed like an eternity. In fact, only three or four minutes had passed before the last half-track in the convoy peeled off the highway and headed for the spot where the prisoners were sitting. Dressed in khaki camouflage uniforms and armed with machine pistols, several SS troopers jumped out of the vehicle and approached the sergeant in charge. A brief conversation ensued, after which the NCO ordered all but two of his men over to the vehicle. There one of the new arrivals exchanged the escorts' rifles for machine pistols, while another man pulled clips from a haversack and passed them around. Armed to the teeth, the men from the half-track and the original escorts advanced together towards the prisoners. The impromptu execution squad was joined by the two remaining escorts, who had retained their rifles.

As the SS men closed in on them, even the most optimistic of the Canadians now realized what was about to happen. Any lingering hopes were dashed when Lieutenant Barker, who was in the front row and who would surely face the first salvo, calmly advised, 'Whoever is left after they fire the first round, go to the left [i.e., north].' At a distance of about thirty yards, the Germans stopped. One of them taunted his intended victims, saying in heavily accented English, 'Now you die.' At that moment, the executioners opened fire.

Hit by the initial burst, the men in front were mowed down where they sat. Many were killed instantly. Others were only wounded and lay writhing in agony on the ground. In the middle rows, pandemonium erupted. As bullets thudded into flesh and soil around them, those who had not yet been hit scrambled in desperation. Shouts, curses, and heart-rending screams filled the night air.

Only those prisoners who had been sitting in the back row had any chance of survival. By advancing in a straight line and neglecting to cordon the area, the Germans had left an escape route open. Acting on instinct, several men made a break for it. Gunners Weldon Clark and Thomas Grant of the 3rd Anti-Tank Regiment ran off together. Clark made his getaway into the adjacent grainfield, but Grant was cut down after having run only a few yards. Corporal McLean and Private Ferris of the Winnipegs also ran in tandem. McLean was hit, but both men reached the adjacent field, where they took cover amid the standing crops. Corporals George Brown and Robert Scott and Privates Gordon Lewis and John MacDougall, also of the Winnipegs, followed McLean's and Ferris's example, but all were struck down by the Germans' second salvo. Of these men, only Private MacDougall, who was wounded in the leg, was able to make good his getaway.

The most hair-raising escape of all was that contrived by Private Arthur Des-jarlais of the Winnipegs' 15 Platoon. Sitting in the back row, Desjarlais actually froze when the Germans fired their first burst. Failure to hit the dirt when bullets are flying around is usually a prescription for disaster. Yet somehow the upright rifleman was not touched. Suddenly realizing the extent of his predicament, Desjarlais got onto his belly and slowly crawled towards the grainfield. Their attention diverted by the chaotic scene in front of them, the SS thugs never noticed him, and Desjarlais was able to slip away.

Of the forty prisoners who found themselves in the Germans' gun sights on the fateful night of 8 June, only five - Corporal McLean and Privates Ferris, MacDougall, and Desjarlais of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles, along with Gunner Clark of the 3rd Anti-Tank Regiment - lived to tell about it. Unfortunately, all five men were recaptured by other German units almost immediately after their brush with death. Thus, it would be months before they were repatriated from POW captivity and were able to tell their stories. By that time, potential German witnesses had either been killed in battle or were missing, and the evidentiary trail had largely gone cold. Hampered by false leads, Canadian war crimes investigators never were able to establish with certainty even the units involved, much less the individuals. This was a failure of tragic proportions, for if any of the crimes committed by the 12th SS Panzer Division 'Hitler Youth' cries out for justice, it is surely the cold-blooded murder of thirty-five Canadian POWs on a moonlit back road in the countryside of northern France. Indeed, the machine gunning of the thirty-five prisoners near the village of Fontenay-le-Pesnel on the night of 8 June ranks as the single worst battlefield atrocity perpetrated against Canadians in the country's military history. So dastardly was this crime that some have since labelled it the 'Canadian Malmedy,' after the strikingly similar and much more famous (or infamous) massacre of American troops during the Nazis' last-ditch Ardennes offensive.”
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  #85  
Old 25-02-05, 15:03
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Post Re: Lt Ferguson, W.S. and Rfmn Smith, E.

Just a note, the Roll of Honour of The Royal Winnipeg Rifles (Second World War), has now been updated to reflect the correct date and cause of death for both Lt Ferguson, W.S. and Rfmn Smith, E.

*LT FERGUSON, W.S. 8/6/44
*RFN SMITH, E. 8/6/44

* Murdered in the field as prisoners of war.

The 'Rifles' plaque at Audrieu (in memory of those murdered) also bares both their names.

The Roll of Honour can be found here

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  #86  
Old 25-02-05, 15:44
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Default Re: Lt. Ferguson

Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Alexander
Of interest, the following is found on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission site:
Name: FERGUSON, WILLIAM STEWART
Initials: W S
Nationality: Canadian
Rank: Lieutenant
Regiment: Royal Winnipeg Rifles, R.C.I.C.
Date of Death: 06/06/1944
Additional information: Son of Anne W. Pullen; husband of Masala Margaret Ferguson, of Vancouver, British Columbia.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: XIII. D. 8.
Cemetery: BENY-SUR-MER CANADIAN WAR CEMETERY, REVIERS

The dates don't match, but are close, and all the other details fit.
BILL and JIM and MARK,

I read through the last posts and see you have all found that information. I remembered a soldier named "FERGUSON" who was executed too, but didn't recall correctly which group of POWS he was executed with. Thanks for searching out and posting the details.

Regards the DATE of death for Lt. W.S. FERGUSON ... if that "JUNE 6" date is what's entered in the War Graves site, then there is someone in charge of, and capable of updating/correcting information. I know this to be so as I've had correspondence from him telling me what he needed from me (proof of age/birthdate) to change the "25" they list for Uncle Ed to "21" he actually was when he died. I'm going to be emailing them a scanned image of his official death registration, that came with his service records, which has his proper birthdate listed. As soon as I send this proof the War Graves site WILL correct the online memorial information.

I hope someone will be able to get LT FERGUSON's information corrected as well.

Karmen
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Old 25-02-05, 15:45
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Hi John;

Have who noticed that the statement of both Gnr Clark, W.F. (posted above) and the account in "Conduct Unbecoming" - differ from that of Cliff Chadderton’s book "Excuse us! Herr Schicklgruber".

In both Clark's statement and in "Conduct Unbecoming", it says that the German's were armed with machine carbines (which would have been MP 40's), and yet in Chadderton’s account, it refers to the execution being carried out by vehicle mounted MG's (which would have been either MG 34's or MG 42's).
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Old 25-02-05, 15:50
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Default Re: Re: Lt Ferguson, W.S. and Rfmn Smith, E.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Just a note, the Roll of Honour of The Royal Winnipeg Rifles (Second World War), has now been updated to reflect the correct date and cause of death for both Lt Ferguson, W.S. and Rfmn Smith, E.

*LT FERGUSON, W.S. 8/6/44
*RFN SMITH, E. 8/6/44

* Murdered in the field as prisoners of war.

The 'Rifles' plaque at Audrieu (in memory of those murdered) also bares both their names.

The Roll of Honour can be found here

Cheers
Thanks MARK,

If LT FERGUSON's date is corrected on the Roll Of Honour then that may mean they had to have "proof" on paper somehow ... maybe they have something on record that the War Graves site will accept as "enough proof of date of death" to be able to update/correct the date error too.

Karmen
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Old 25-02-05, 15:52
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Hi John;

Have who noticed that the statement of both Gnr Clark, W.F. (posted above) and the account in "Conduct Unbecoming" - differ from that of Cliff Chadderton’s book "Excuse us! Herr Schicklgruber".

In both Clark's statement and in "Conduct Unbecoming", it says that the German's were armed with machine carbines (which would have been MP 40's), and yet in Chadderton’s account, it refers to the execution being carried out by vehicle mounted MG's (which would have been either MG 34's or MG 42's).
I noticed that contradiction too.
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Old 25-02-05, 15:54
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Post Re: Lt's Ferguson, WF and Barker, RD

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Letter (dated: 14 June, 1945) sent to the Officer-in-Command, Records (Canadian Military Headquarters-London (UK)) from the Administration Officer, 1st Canadian War Crimes Investigation Unit (North-West Europe). Half way down the attached list (not posted here) appears the following entry:
H-42084 Rfmn Smith, E. RWR (along with his Plot/Row/Grave info)
(Note: the above mentioned letter can be found on page 2 of this thread)

The attached list:
Attached Thumbnails
list - 14 jun 45 ltr.jpg  
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