MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > MILITARY VEHICLES > The Softskin Forum

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22-02-23, 11:01
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default 3-ton GS body mounted flush with rear of chassis frame?

This topic came up in another thread.

Does anyone have more info or photos of wartime examples that had the body mounted in the forward position i.e. flush with rear of chassis frame? The wheel wells on the 3-ton 5F-series body seem to have been designed to accommodate both mounting positions even tough examples mounting them in the forward position was very rare.


Here are two photos to compare the look of a standard F60L and one with the body moved forward. The latter is a F60L in postwar civilian service working on the beach. Note the GS body has been moved forward after removing the spare wheel holder behind the cab.
Click image for larger version

Name:	614644FD-E756-4C6E-9017-0674A5C5D674.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	589.7 KB
ID:	132901 Click image for larger version

Name:	332001677_497543099225973_1067846959529266972_n.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	577.8 KB
ID:	132900


In Drive to Victory I found some references of 5F-series bodies with a spare tyre carrier inside the body, allowing the body to be mounted flush with the rear of the chassis frame.
Click image for larger version

Name:	332399401_5886253551427652_882600476662666923_n.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	47.2 KB
ID:	132902
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22-02-23, 14:25
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hoofddorp, The Netherlands
Posts: 2,670
Default

Hanno,

Attached picture shows up in the NIMH archive; "Chevrolet C60L 3-tons 4x4-accumagazijnauto" (battery storage truck). I presume this is the 5F body. The spare wheel is more in line with the GS bodies fitted to the Dodge D60L, which also had the spare tyre under the right front corner of the body, presumably because of the longer civvy cab, when compared to the cab 11/12/13 cabs.

Click image for larger version

Name:	AKL046312.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	354.9 KB
ID:	132912
source: https://nimh-beeldbank.defensie.nl/f...%22Foto%27s%22


Regarding the normal GS body and the long wheel wells and two positions.....
I seem to remember there was a description about this one of Bill Gregg's publications(?)........ and it had to do with the style of tyres; If a truck was fitted with Run Flat tyres, no spare was needed and the body could be mounted behind the cab directly. If it had normal tyres, the body could be mounted backwards leaving room for a spare tyre carrier behind the cab.
__________________
Chevrolet C8 cab 11 FFW
BSA Folding Bicycle
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 22-02-23, 14:59
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hoofddorp, The Netherlands
Posts: 2,670
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post

Does anyone have more info or photos of wartime examples that had the body mounted in the forward position i.e. flush with rear of chassis frame?
Bending the rules a little bit here, Hanno........not really wartime, but attached pictures also show up in the NIMH archive. Is it just the angle of the pictures, or do these show 3 Ton trucks with the body mounted in the foward position?

Click image for larger version

Name:	F60L Commando.JPG
Views:	3
Size:	120.8 KB
ID:	132913 Click image for larger version

Name:	not wartime.JPG
Views:	2
Size:	107.0 KB
ID:	132914

source: https://nimh-beeldbank.defensie.nl/f...2&filterAction

source:https://nimh-beeldbank.defensie.nl/f...2&filterAction
__________________
Chevrolet C8 cab 11 FFW
BSA Folding Bicycle
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 22-02-23, 21:36
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering View Post
Bending the rules a little bit here, Hanno........not really wartime, but attached pictures also show up in the NIMH archive. Is it just the angle of the pictures, or do these show 3 Ton trucks with the body mounted in the foward position?
Great find, as far as I can tell these have the bodies mounted forward indeed. Although these are wartime trucks, they are not in civilian use where they could be modified beyond recognition. So these ones fall within the "rules" as far as I am concerned.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 22-02-23, 21:58
Harry Moon Harry Moon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Burnaby B.C. Canada
Posts: 1,091
Default I believe...

I read somewhere at some time that the spare tire and carrier was shipped in the back of the truck to make them shorter for transportation and often the winch equipped trucks were more likely to store the spare in the back and have the winch equipment more readily accessible. which is what I have done with my winch truck. My winch truck did in fact have the tire carrier mounted when i got it.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 22-02-23, 23:31
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Moon View Post
I read somewhere at some time that the spare tire and carrier was shipped in the back of the truck to make them shorter for transportation and often the winch equipped trucks were more likely to store the spare in the back and have the winch equipment more readily accessible. which is what I have done with my winch truck. My winch truck did in fact have the tire carrier mounted when i got it.
Thanks Harry, would be great if you could find back the source of that.

Would you say the load in the truck with the body moved forward would be better distributed?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 22-02-23, 23:34
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default 5E, not 5F

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering View Post
Attached picture shows up in the NIMH archive; "Chevrolet C60L 3-tons 4x4-accumagazijnauto" (battery storage truck). I presume this is the 5F body. The spare wheel is more in line with the GS bodies fitted to the Dodge D60L, which also had the spare tyre under the right front corner of the body, presumably because of the longer civvy cab, when compared to the cab 11/12/13 cabs.
The body in the battery storage truck is a flat floor 5E-series by the look of it, generally fitted to 4x2 trucks like you noted.

Click image for larger version

Name:	12ft flat floor body 5E3.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	144.5 KB
ID:	132915
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 22-02-23, 23:47
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default 3-ton GS body with 54" wheelhouse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering View Post
Regarding the normal GS body and the long wheel wells and two positions.....
I seem to remember there was a description about this one of Bill Gregg's publications(?)........ and it had to do with the style of tyres; If a truck was fitted with Run Flat tyres, no spare was needed and the body could be mounted behind the cab directly. If it had normal tyres, the body could be mounted backwards leaving room for a spare tyre carrier behind the cab.
I looked up Volume 5 - Bodies and Non-technical Vehicles of the AEDB Design Record, and found references to 3-ton GS body with 54" wheelhouse which came both in all steel and composite construction. It is clear it was designed so it could be fitted in two positions: either with a 14" overhang or flush with the chassis, although I could not find a reference why/ when the body should be mounted in each position.

Click image for larger version

Name:	AEDB_vol5_basic bodies_steel-body_54-in_wheelhouse_mounting.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	72.0 KB
ID:	132919


See the attached pics of examples of Chevrolet C60Ls with Cab 11 - with runflat tyres hence no need for a spare like you noted Alex?

Click image for larger version

Name:	AEDB_vol5_basic bodies_composite-body_54-in_wheelhouse Cab11.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	118.4 KB
ID:	132918

Click image for larger version

Name:	AEDB_vol5_basic bodies_steel-body_54-in_wheelhouse.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	116.4 KB
ID:	132917
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 23-02-23, 23:26
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hoofddorp, The Netherlands
Posts: 2,670
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post
The body in the battery storage truck is a flat floor 5E-series by the look of it, generally fitted to 4x2 trucks like you noted.

Attachment 132915
That drawing looks spot on, Hanno, so I agree....the NIMH picture shows a 5E body.
__________________
Chevrolet C8 cab 11 FFW
BSA Folding Bicycle
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 23-02-23, 23:31
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hoofddorp, The Netherlands
Posts: 2,670
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post

See the attached pics of examples of Chevrolet C60Ls with Cab 11 - with runflat tyres hence no need for a spare like you noted Alex?
That's what remember reading somewhere.....and to me it makes sence. I also saw Phil mentioning the same things in another thread.....he also couldn't remember where he read it!

As always, new info and new pictures also raise new questions.....I always thought the wood/metal composite body was a mid to "late" war development, so I am surprised to see it on a Cab 11 here (?)
__________________
Chevrolet C8 cab 11 FFW
BSA Folding Bicycle
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 24-02-23, 01:41
Jordan Baker's Avatar
Jordan Baker Jordan Baker is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,000
Default

Hanno

Sometimes the answer is right in front of you.


“The body is mounted with 14” overhang on the 158” W.B. short frame, and flush with the rear of the chassis on the long frame”
Attached Thumbnails
5DCDD60D-CEFB-4564-9F1E-BF20015781A3.jpeg  
__________________
Jordan Baker
RHLI Museum,
Otter LRC
C15A-Wire3, 1944
Willys MB, 1942
10cwt Canadian trailer
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 24-02-23, 08:07
Lionelgee's Avatar
Lionelgee Lionelgee is offline
Lionel G. Evans
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Bundaberg - Queensland, Australia
Posts: 719
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post
I looked up Volume 5 - Bodies and Non-technical Vehicles of the AEDB Design Record, and found references to 3-ton GS body with 54" wheelhouse which came both in all steel and composite construction. It is clear it was designed so it could be fitted in two positions: either with a 14" overhang or flush with the chassis, although I could not find a reference why/ when the body should be mounted in each position.


See the attached pics of examples of Chevrolet C60Ls with Cab 11 - with runflat tyres hence no need for a spare like you noted Alex?
Hello Hanno,

Thank you for attaching the diagrams and the photographs. So the difference is a 14 inch overhang over the rear of the chassis - as the most common configuration. The less common alternative is the rear of the body being flush with the end of the chassis. The diagrams made it clearer. With most of the photographs being at a 3/4 angle it was hard to tell the difference. Well to someone who is not very well schooled in things CMP. I am more in the MCP camp.

Kind regards
Lionel
__________________
1940 Chevrolet MCP with Holden Built Cab (30 CWT).
1935 REO Speed Wagon.
1963 Series 2A Army Ambulance ARN 112-211
Series III ex-Military Land Rovers x 2

Last edited by Lionelgee; 24-02-23 at 23:37.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 24-02-23, 09:18
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Baker View Post
Sometimes the answer is right in front of you.
“The body is mounted with 14” overhang on the 158” W.B. short frame, and flush with the rear of the chassis on the long frame”
Jordan, thanks, I’ve read that. This suggests the 158” wb chassis came in a long and short version. As far as I know there was only one type of chassis frame. I did read about frame extensions, I think Keith Webb photographed some on a survivor in Australia.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 24-02-23, 16:59
Harry Moon Harry Moon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Burnaby B.C. Canada
Posts: 1,091
Default extended frames

the extended frames move the trailer hitch back the 14 inches to the rear giving a better tow geometry.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 25-02-23, 09:56
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Moon View Post
the extended frames move the trailer hitch back the 14 inches to the rear giving a better tow geometry.
Thanks Harry. Are those extensions bolted onto the standard chassis?
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 25-02-23, 12:53
Phil Waterman Phil Waterman is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Temple, New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 3,927
Default I made a set of extensions

Hi All

Years ago when I wanted to put an S56 radio box on the back of my C60S Pattern 13, I made up a extension that used all of the existing bolt holes for tow hook assembly. Consist of inner frame rail, outer rail that buts to the normal frame and rear cross member. All the steel matches the regular frame.

The it has turned out to be very rigid. I'll take pictures and post.

Cheers Phil
__________________
Phil Waterman
`41 C60L Pattern 12
`42 C60S Radio Pattern 13
`45 HUP
http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/
New e-mail Philip@canadianmilitarypattern.com
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 25-02-23, 17:18
Harry Moon Harry Moon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Burnaby B.C. Canada
Posts: 1,091
Default probably factory

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post
Thanks Harry. Are those extensions bolted onto the standard chassis?
the one I saw and the pictures I've seen suggest factory.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 25-02-23, 21:29
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,426
Default 5E4 Flat Floor Body

I found these pages in the wartime CMP Data Book, I hope they are relivent to this thread.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Data - Page A7-60.jpg
Views:	6
Size:	994.3 KB
ID:	132954

Click image for larger version

Name:	Data - Page A7-61.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	923.0 KB
ID:	132955

Click image for larger version

Name:	Data - Page A7-62.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	797.3 KB
ID:	132956
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 26-02-23, 18:40
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Moon View Post
the one I saw and the pictures I've seen suggest factory.
Factory bolted (as an add-on kit) or welded?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 26-02-23, 20:06
Harry Moon Harry Moon is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Burnaby B.C. Canada
Posts: 1,091
Default riveted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post
Factory bolted (as an add-on kit) or welded?
riveted it looks like
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 26-02-23, 22:57
Keith Webb's Avatar
Keith Webb Keith Webb is offline
Film maker, CMP addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Macleod, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 8,216
Default Australian Chassis extension

This dates from December 1943 and the intention was to reduce the turning circle of a long wheelbase vehicle whilst towing a trailer.
Attached Thumbnails
Chassis extension drawing.jpg  
__________________
Film maker

42 FGT No8 (Aust) remains
42 FGT No9 (Aust)
42 F15
Keith Webb
Macleod, Victoria Australia
Also Canadian Military Pattern Vehicles group on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/canadianmilitarypattern
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Chev C8 IA2 Hoops (boughs, rear frame etc) Richard Nixon The Softskin Forum 6 15-01-19 20:01
For Sale: M38 Body and frame Wpns 421 For Sale Or Wanted 0 25-03-18 17:42
For Sale: TM 9-1804B M38 Power Train Body and Frame Manual David Dunlop For Sale Or Wanted 0 30-01-16 18:26
GAZ- AA - rear canvas hood frame Larry Hayward The Softskin Forum 36 13-12-06 00:17
Frame dimension for C-GT Body Don Birnie The Softskin Forum 2 17-08-04 00:00


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:27.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016