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  #1  
Old 29-03-14, 18:07
Stuart Fedak Stuart Fedak is offline
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Default Text removed as information is no longer current

Text removed as information is no longer current

Last edited by Stuart Fedak; 22-10-17 at 23:59.
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  #2  
Old 30-03-14, 02:28
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Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
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My thought was....... "What does it look like?"
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Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6
Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....
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  #3  
Old 30-03-14, 05:47
Ed Storey Ed Storey is offline
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Default 18 Pdr Desk Lamp

DO NOT CLEAN IT. You will devalue it and ruin the patina. Just leave it as it is.
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Old 30-03-14, 06:43
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Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
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Thank you for posting the pictures Stuart. An interesting piece.
Now that I've seen it, I still have no idea about what sort of shade you could use. Ed's advise is great!, but on the shade, try a females (constructive) advice.
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Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6
Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....
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  #5  
Old 30-03-14, 07:12
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Tony Wheeler Tony Wheeler is offline
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Wonderful piece Stuart, thanks for the pics. My first thought for the lampshade would be a traditional banker's desk lamp, which I've always liked. They're still being made so you could probably adapt the fixture. Better than a frilly domestic lampshade IMO. Also I'd be replacing the plastic lead and plug with some retro stuff, ie. cloth sheathed lead and bakelite plug.

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  #6  
Old 01-04-14, 18:20
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is offline
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Interesting, and a common battlefield relic, as the case of the 18pdr Shrap essentially stays intact upon initiation of the bursting charge. I see yours has no rifling marks on the driving band, so a new/unused production item, rather than a b'field relic (like the one I used to have: now at the AWM).

I was amused by the CWM caption on their sectioned example: whoever wrote it fell into the trap if describing the shell as exploding in the air and shattering, which is simply not the case: it was a far more sophisticated round than that!

Nice curio.

Mike C
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  #7  
Old 01-04-14, 18:42
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default Suggestion.....

Hi Stuart

I have seen similar lamps with a steel pot helmet for a shade and in my opinion the proprotions do not look good nor does it allow any light to shine through.

If it was mine, I would look for an after market repro "Tiffany" lamp shade of that period in a size that would match the height of the shell. The Tiffany lamps are glass segments held by lead tape and usually arranged in beautiful patterns. Would be nice to find a Tiff shade in a variety of "poppy" red segments.......

Just do not test the fuze with a hammer !!!!!!

Cheers
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  #8  
Old 01-04-14, 18:46
motto motto is offline
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Default More, more!

You can't leave it at that Mike! You've made comment on a topic of particular interest to me, projectile design, construction and behaviour. I think I know how the shrapnel shell functions but you obviously know for sure. Can you go over the design features and operation of the round as I'm sure others would like to know also, or do we have to wait until the book comes out?

Dave
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  #9  
Old 01-04-14, 19:10
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is offline
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I didn't think it was that much of a mystery, Dave.

The 18pdr 'Shrap' - can't remember the exact term off hand (Edit: 'Shell, Shrapnel, QF, 18-pdr') - consisted of an outer casing, with a wide mouth, threaded to accept a fuze holder for the VT-P (Variable Time - Percussion) fuze. The thread of the holder was shallow and short, which is significant. Held within the casing were a whole bunch of steel balls (Edit: actually either mixed metal of antimony-lead or cast iron, not 'steel'), held in a medium (I think, shellac?: Edit: it was Resin) with a hollow down the centre of the shell to the base. In the base was a small bursting charge, from memory, Black Powder. Can't remember if the hollow tube was a long fuze or open. (Edit: the tube was a central metal tube that screwed into a steel disc that sat above the bursting charge, which was contained in a tin cup in the base of the shell casing.)

The shell functioned by the time fuze, at the pre-set time of flight, flashing down the centre of the shell to the bursting charge in the base, or by impact on target. The bursting charge then did two things: slowed the outer casing, and pushed the contents (all the balls) forward, popping the fuze holder and spent fuze from the shell casing and pushing all the balls through the wide mouth of the casing. The balls were directed forwards along the axis of the shell at the time of initiation (termed the 'cone of dispersion'), like a shotgun round, rather than scattered in all directions as would happen if the shell casing was designed to disintegrate (which would also take a far larger bursting charge). The now vacant and slowed casing, usually still intact, fell to earth. The fuze also fell to earth more or less intact. The medium (resin) holding the balls in place inside the casing disintegrated as the balls were forced forwards through the wide mouth, and served to increase the 'puff' signature of the burst to aid in observation, along with the black powder bursting charge.

The HE shell casing, by contrast, was designed to shatter when the explosive charge within was initiated, the destructive force being both the explosive (concussive) force and the jagged metal fragments from the casing.

Mike C

Last edited by Mike Cecil; 01-04-14 at 20:20. Reason: More detailed info.
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  #10  
Old 01-04-14, 23:17
Gordon Yeo Gordon Yeo is offline
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Default like this?

Here is a picture of a shell.
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  #11  
Old 02-04-14, 01:03
Mike Cecil Mike Cecil is offline
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Yep, looks like the one. Thanks

Mike C
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  #12  
Old 02-04-14, 01:29
Gordon Yeo Gordon Yeo is offline
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Default " shrapnel "

Here is a, very poor quality, picture of lead balls found in a farmers field near Passchendaele. The penny in the top of the picture is to give a scale of size.
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  #13  
Old 02-04-14, 22:55
motto motto is offline
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Thanks Mike, that's exactly the sort of information that I was hoping for. There was a lot of that I didn't know and I imagine that applies to most onlookers.

You've got to love this forum.


Dave

ps I remember seeing (and have a photo of) a turkish skull on display in a little museum in Krithia on the Gallipoli Peninsular with one of these balls lodged half way through right on top. The 'tin hat' was introduced to prevent or reduce such casualties and most certainly did so.
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Last edited by motto; 02-04-14 at 23:08.
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