Dodge wc in Canadian Army?

[Kenny Desaever]

Can anyone tell me if the American Dodge wc 51/52 have been used by Canadian Forces in WW2?
The Canadian Dodge hasn't been really used on battlefield, maybe the american type has.

[Kenny Desaever]

Perhaps, someone has some pictures?

[Eric B]

Hello Kenny

I have had a few requests like this over the years.

From those who are knowledable about US Dodges. From what i gather the official answer would be no.

Canada did not buy any mid size vehicles from the USA and i am not sure if these were provided to the British as part of lend lease. If they were provided to the British then it is possible that we obtained some through the British or we borrowed them from our US Allies. However this is not a vehicle that would blend into our own fleet and would be easy to spot.

I also have not seen any photos of these in Canadian WW2 Markings in the Archives or anywhere else.

In my search for 1/4 ton history i have not seen any Dodge WC's listed either.

Eric

[Larry Hayward]

According to Bart Vanderveen, the Canadian Dodge Weapons Carrier (T236) was used mainly by other countries but only AFTER WW2.

[Kenny Desaever]

Hello Eric and Larry,
Thank you for your replys!
Now we are sure they haven't been used by Canadian Forces during WW2.
We are still searching for a smaller vehicle than my Ford F15A. I had to sell him because of health problems (rheuma). It isn't easy to find a vehicle that's easier to drive AND that has been used by Canadian Forces.

Greetings
Kenny

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Kenny Desaever

Can anyone tell me if the American Dodge wc 51/52 have been used by Canadian Forces in WW2?
The Canadian Dodge hasn't been really used on battlefield, maybe the american type has.

Kenny..
Here is a list of Canadian war time Dodges..
I got these manuals from the first General Motors parts man that was sent by the General Motors factory in Oshawa to England in 1941 to organize all the parts for all the Canadian vehicles that we sent to England for use in the Invasion of the continent on D day June 6th,1944..
He went on to the continent with the invasion troops and followed them with all the required parts and stores to keep our vehicles..He was hurt in a vehicle accident in Feb of '45 in Belgium ..and repatriated to England for hospitalization..by the time he got out the war was over and he returned to Canada..He was a Canadian civilian with an Honourary rank of Captain..so he would not have been shot as a spy if he fell into German hands,but treated as another military prisoner..
His name was Roy Tutt and was my next door neighbour and passed away a few years ago at 90..
Anyway these were his manuals that he used on the continent and if he had them there we were using the vehicles and he was providing parts for these vehicles..
so that is the story...
Here are the manuals..(by the way..all these manuals can be ordered in reproduction form from Grant Bowker..one of the Hammond barn crew..
The Canadian Dodge APT 3/4 ton was a cut down version to fit inside the Horsa glider..(Check the 98" wheel base..)

WAR TIME Chryslers..

************************************************** **************

#48: 150 pages
WM 4143
CHRYSLER CORPORATION OF CANADA LTD. DODGE TRUCK Parts List for British Army Symbol D 3/4 APT 3/4 Ton 4x4 - 98 W.B. Supply Mech. 6423, April '45. Illustrated.


#49: 150 pages
WM 4152.
CHRYSLER CORPORATION OF CANADA LTD. DODGE TRUCK Retroactive Parts List for British Army Symbol D60-L 3-Ton 4x2-160, W.B. Supply Mech. 5150, May '45. Illustrated.


#49A: 120Pages
WM 3803
DODGE 3 TON 4X2(T110-L-S)160" WB,Drivers Instruction Book. '41-'42


#50: 220 pages
3/4 APT-D1
CHRYSLER CORPORATION OF CANADA LTD. MAINTENANCE MANUAL DODGE TRUCKS 3/4 TON,4x4 (Canadian) Airportable Wade Proofed. (Dec.'45). Illustrated
This manual includes MM-TPL/1 Tropical Maintenance Supplement - A survey of Potential Problems and Their Prevention in the Field. - In this section are included:
i) the whys and wherefores of potential troubles related to operations in the tropics.br ii) generally recommended preventative maintenance practices.
iii) approved protective materials and their general applications.
N.B. - section i) also includes what to do if your vehicle is attacked by termites.


#51: 200 pages
D-10034
CHRYSLER CORPORATION (U.S.) DODGE TRUCK T-211 PARTS LIST 1/2-Ton Model. (June '41). Illustrated
WC 12 CLOSED CAB - W/EXPRESS BODY
WC 13 OPEN CAB - W/EXPRESS BODY
WC 14 CLOSED CAB - W/EXPRESS BODY and Bullet Sealing Tubes
WC 15 RECONNAISSANCE BODY
WC 16 RADIO
WC 17 CARRY-ALL BODY
WC 18 AMBULANCE
WC 19 PANEL BODY
WC 20 CLOSED CAB - NO BODY
WHEELBASES 116 & 123

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

May I ask if there is a serial number listing etc in the 'SM 5150' list? I have not heard of a 5XXX series Supply Mechanical Demand before...only 2XXX and 6XXX.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

I agree, all I have read and seen seems to disclaim the use of Weapon Carrier by the Canadian Army in NW Europe at least.

But what about this picture? If you look closely you will see Dodge WC52's towing 1-ton trailers with mortars. The picture is captioned "Victory Parade of the 1st Canadian Division in Rotterdam, 10 June 1945".

Is this picture showing as captioned? Or did they switch it with a picture of a few years later and does it actually show a post-war Netherlands Army Parade?

H.

[Kenny Desaever]

Hello Hanno,

Indeed, strange...
Its seems to be American Dodge's and not Canadian...
I tried to enlarge the pictures to see some details but they became unclear.
Perhaps an exception?
Before the Canadian forces build their own wc's, they must have tried the American's. Maybe these are them??

greets
Kenny

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Kenny Desaever

Indeed, strange...
Its seems to be American Dodge's and not Canadian...
I tried to enlarge the pictures to see some details but they became unclear.
Perhaps an exception?
Before the Canadian forces build their own wc's, they must have tried the American's. Maybe these are them??

Hi Kenny,

Personally I think it is a post-war picture of a big Dutch Army parade, like the used to do back then, but I would like to be proved wrong!

Also see Info about Dodge WC 55 in British Service.

HTH,
Hanno

[Kenny Desaever]

hello Hanno,

Indeed, looking at the speakers and the fences along the road, it doesn't seems to be a '45 parade...
Actually, i would also be very, very happy to find a picture of an American wc 51, 52, 62 or 63 used by Canadian forces. But....NOTHING to find.....
I think it's more confincing to use an American wc than a (very late-war)Canadian one.

greetings
Kenny

[Nick T236]

Hi,
I am also trying to find info on the use of Canadian WC 52.
This may be of some use.
I have pictures and spoken to a fella that had a 1944 WC 52 Canadian who found D-day signal markings when he stripped off the paint layers, including the original bonnet no: CZ 6644117

I am no expert, but mine has been 'converted' to accept a deep water snorkel on the n/s bonnet cover over the carb intake at one point and straighten back and rewelded.Why would this have done, except to drive up the beach on D-day?

I have also spoken to the odd veteran in this country and on the beach in Normany who say that the early dodges were there,is this true?
Nick T236

[Kenny Desaever]

Hello Nick
At the moment i've only heard that the building of the 3/4apt started end '44 and ended begin '45.
They made less than 10000, exact numbers aren't known.
It is said that the "Canadian" model hasn't been on the front but came later on, when Europe had already been liberated.
The first model would be made with the wide body and later on they made the "smaller" body. The waterproof intakes were also abcent on the first models, but these would be converted later on to make them "water-proof"

Is yours a "wide" body? Do you have some pictures?

greetings
Kenny

[Nick T236]

Hi,
yes mine is the 'wide' bodied WC 52, it seems to be 1000 to 1500 earlier than any other I can find.
I have also found two Canadian WC 51's which is interesting as I thought all Canadian dodges were 52's,
I am working on photo's of mine, any one else got any pics?
The tool rack is also on the tailgate at present, but I have been adviced that it should be on the end of the passenger side locker, virtical over the step?
Nick T236

[Kenny Desaever]

Hello Nick

Indeed, the first 3200 vehicles had de "wide" body and from the 5001 st vehicle they started to make them waterproof. Some of the "older" models were modified.
It is indeed interesting to hear that there are wc51's!!
Until now i also heard only of wc 52's.
Do they also have the Canadian engine?
Which are the differences on your Dodge?
Perhaps this is a interesting site for you: www.wheelsofvictory.com


greetings
Kenny

[Galea]

So far, we have confirmed that my friend has an early 1944 wide-bodied Canadian Dodge. Can anyone tell me how the height of the canvas back canopy compares with the US Dodge WC-52 or narrow-bodied Canadian Dodge? Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Joseph

[Keith Orpin]

Guys,
I know this is slightly off topic but.............

Originally Posted by David_Hayward

May I ask if there is a serial number listing etc in the 'SM 5150' list? I have not heard of a 5XXX series Supply Mechanical Demand before...only 2XXX and 6XXX.

David, I've just come across some official pictures which came from the Imperial War Museum many years ago, showing a WC 51, in British service. According to the pictures, it was supplied under S/M 2586, number on bonnet is Z5884938. I reckon this dates from 44/45, as she has the later wood/steel body fitted.The vehicle has had some mods done to it, presumably for acceptance for the British, i.e. front side marker lights moved out to the edges of the front wings, a blackout cover fitted to the N/S (Nearside) headlight, removal of headlight from the O/S (Offside), bridging plate fixed to O/S brushguard, rear veiw mirror moved from the N/S to the O/S, manually operated turn signal on the O/S white painted diff cover, rear marker light added to show diff cover. Actually, it would make a very interesting restoration. Do you, or anyone else know anymore about this contract ?
Regards
Keith

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

But what about this picture? If you look closely you will see Dodge WC52's towing 1-ton trailers with mortars. The picture is captioned "Victory Parade of the 1st Canadian Division in Rotterdam, 10 June 1945".

Is this picture showing as captioned? Or did they switch it with a picture of a few years later and does it actually show a post-war Netherlands Army Parade?

My belief that this is a post-war picture of a big Dutch Army parade, like they used to do back then, was strengthened when I received this picture today.

It shows the same Dodge Weapon Carrier trucks towing Dutch-built 1-ton trailers with mortars.

[chrisgrove]

Originally Posted by Kenny Desaever

Can anyone tell me if the American Dodge wc 51/52 have been used by Canadian Forces in WW2?
The Canadian Dodge hasn't been really used on battlefield, maybe the american type has.

The Canadian Dodge T212 D8A was extensively used by British forces on the battlefields of North Africa, though obviously, in that theatre, not by Canadian forces.

It consisted basically of the front end of the US Dodge 1/2 ton series, though with a hard top cab and slightly smaller engine, married to the body of the British (sorry, and early CMP) 8 cwt radio and personnel trucks.

Chris

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by chrisgrove

The Canadian Dodge T212 D8A was extensively used by British forces on the battlefields of North Africa, though obviously, in that theatre, not by Canadian forces.

Thanks Chris,

But Kenny is referring to the Canadian Dodge Weapon Carrier APT 3/4 (T236).

[AndreasS]

Mine is a t 236 no,,: 91151596 WC 52

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Larry Hayward

According to Bart Vanderveen, the Canadian Dodge Weapons Carrier (T236) was used mainly by other countries but only AFTER WW2.

Is this one?

In service with the Dutch Army in Indonesia, 1945-1949.

[Eric hermanides]

Hello Hanno

Nice pictures but there is so much wrong at this Dodge and the guys sitting on it but the right tire is Canadian .
Also a strange thing is the American star on the bumper.
Nice pictures to talked about with the guys when there is a discussion if it is original or not.

About the question if there are wc51/wc52 in the Canadian army I am not sure but there was a combined army us-Canadian maybe they use the wc trucks.

Eric

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Hi Eric,

What triggered me to think it is an APT was the narrow rear body. But it was pointed out to me it should have a winch.

Could it be a Dodge-salad made up from various trucks?

The WC-series Dodge was not used by the Canadian army during WW2, that much is clear.

[Lynn Eades]

Hanno, I don't think it is a narrow bed? The left step is local made. It should have a spare wheel well in it. (only the WC55 Gun motor carriage had a flat step) The fuel filler appears to be a big cap, but sticks out too far?
My guess is that was a std. U.S.A. built 43 to 45 weapons carrier.

Question. (not that you can see in the photo) didn't some of the later APT's have an external air filter with a factory cut out to the vertical right side bonnet?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Hanno, I don't think it is a narrow bed? The left step is local made. It should have a spare wheel well in it. (only the WC55 Gun motor carriage had a flat step) The fuel filler appears to be a big cap, but sticks out too far?
My guess is that was a std. U.S.A. built 43 to 45 weapons carrier.

Compared with a photo with a similar line of sight I'd say the one above has a narrower bed than the US built WC-51.

Could it be a Dodge-salad?

Compare with this photo of a Dodge WC-51 in service with the Dutch Army in Indonesia:

[Lynn Eades]

Hanno, a salad? Yes. And I concede on the bed width. . Mine has obviously been apart for too long.

[Eric hermanides]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Hi Eric,

What triggered me to think it is an APT was the narrow rear body. But it was pointed out to me it should have a winch.

Could it be a Dodge-salad made up from various trucks?

The WC-series Dodge was not used by the Canadian army during WW2, that much is clear.

Hello Hanno

Yes there is a lot wrong on this wc51
The radiateur and light guard are early second type
The cargo body is late type (1945)
The top bow are probably from a GMC
The bumper is also probably from a GMC

Yes the APT have always a winch and the extra rim at the wheels and it is a 12 volt truck and much more.

I am almost sure it is not a APT

Eric