Centurion Arrives in BC

[Dennis Cardy]

[B] The local papers gave a lot of space to the arrival of an Korean War tank.
And I quote...."Aldergrove is now home to the last surviving Centurion tank with proven combat experience in the Korean War."

“Tina the tank,” as coined by a CN Rail employee, lived on the opposite coast at Nova Scotia’s Cornwallis Military Museum from 1988 until its recent closure in 2019, due to a lack of volunteers.

On Oct. 30, the nearly 50-ton tank was loaded onto a CN Railway car in Dartmouth, N.S."

After the cross Canada journey...it arrived at local CN Yards a few days ago.
Then parked in front of the Aldergrove Legion for Nov11 ceremonies.

Did not see a CFR. Anybody know..?

[Dennis Cardy]

The Aldergrove Star published this "exclusive photograph".
One the left.. Bob Long of Langley Council.
Centre...Joslyn Young from CN
Right.....Major (CF) Ian Newby.

As a side note, maj. Newby supplied all the Uniforms, weapons, and military vehicles for the very first Rambo movie.

[Ed Storey]

OK, I will bite, what is the proof that this particular Centurion had combat experience in Korea?

[Ed Storey]

I just read the online news reports for this tank and someone really needs to get their facts straight. Both the Aldergrove Star and CTV are misreporting that this is last surviving tank with combat experience from the Korean War - which it is not. Also please note that the articles imply that Canada used Centurion tanks in Korea, which we did not.

It is nice that the tank has been shipped from one end of the country to the other but all the bluster, fanfare and chest pounding has resulted in the facts behind this AFV being misreported to the public. Please, now is the time to correct the errors before they become ingrained into the public lore.

[jdmcm]

Oh that Newby...what a scamp!

[rob love]

I had a look on Shelldrakes list of Nova Scotia monuments, and by blowing up the photo of what I believe to be this tank, the CFR appears to be 52-81190

[James P]

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

I just read the online news reports for this tank and someone really needs to get their facts straight. Both the Aldergrove Star and CTV are misreporting that this is last surviving tank with combat experience from the Korean War - which it is not. Also please note that the articles imply that Canada used Centurion tanks in Korea, which we did not.

It is nice that the tank has been shipped from one end of the country to the other but all the bluster, fanfare and chest pounding has resulted in the facts behind this AFV being misreported to the public. Please, now is the time to correct the errors before they become ingrained into the public lore.

Seems the media just running with what they are told and the yarn spun about the tank, as they say if you are going to tell a story about bears.........have LOTS of bears in it.

[Aide Memoire]

http://armedforcesmuseum.ca/centurion-interior/

I got inside through the driver's hatch. The canvas blind that separates the driver's compartment from the fighting compartment was still there. Someone had disconnected all of the 20 or so Larkspur-type cables from the 'Junction and Control Unit' box, unbolted it from its home beneath the main gun, and wedged it upright behind the driver's seat to prevent access to the rear. And it weighs about 120 lbs. After some old-fashioned heavy lifting we got it out of the road, and I spent some time photographing inside.

I was playing with different lighting/ flash etc. so some pics are doubles, but you can see the overall inside condition. Main gun has what looks like an intact breech with no barrel demil or plugs - with only the breech block itself removed. Probably a bit hard to see from the pics.

Also might be hard to make out but looking back into the engine compartment shows just how echoingly empty it is

None of the control wiring for everything has been cut - all of it has perfectly legible labels and Larkspur-era connectors in place. A lot of the instrument panel/ breaker panel legends are still legible as well. Pretty cool. Doesn't show in the pics but the underside of the loader's hatch has a couple of samples of the 'Canadian Army Khaki Green' in semi-gloss/ gloss - exactly what I need to reproduce for my M37 at some point.

Apart from the data plates on the main gun and the various components in the pics - there's nothing on the inside of the hull or turret anywhere. Commander's hatch has what looks like a 1953 ROF year stamp on it - but it could've been replaced at some point so that CFR still might be legit.

[Aide Memoire]

Bovington got back to me and were very helpful, but unfortunately unless you have the 16 KA 00 style British Army reg. no. you're kind of out of luck as no records were kept by hull number.

They did send me scans of a couple of cards the rest of us might find interesting - and it shows what they have to work with. They're manual file-card type records which have been pencil-erased and rewritten and erased and written again as assignments changed, I imagine - but the reason I asked for them is that *after* Canada had taken delivery of its brand-new orders we got at least a couple of used ones out of British Army inventory in 1963. Unfortunately it doesn't really specify where they went other than "Can Bde" - but interesting I've never heard mention of it until now.

You can check out the cards here:

http://armedforcesmuseum.ca/bovington/

(ps. the "s/o" is British admspeak for "struck off" or "sold on" - and apparently "FARELF" is Far East Land Force - or gear pooled for the Malaysian Emergency, apparently surplused from Hong Kong.)

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by Aide Memoire

... but the reason I asked for them is that *after* Canada had taken delivery of its brand-new orders we got at least a couple of used ones out of British Army inventory in 1963. Unfortunately it doesn't really specify where they went other than "Can Bde" - but interesting I've never heard mention of it until now.

Andy,

Thanks for doing this. At first glance I can't make hide nor hair of them but I look forward to reading them until I do!

What I can add is that the Canadian Army acquired four bridgelayer Centurions during the mid-60's. Details vary as to the exact dates they were received, and it appears they were taken on at four different times but served until replaced by the Leopard bridgelayer.

Cheers,
Dan.

[Ed Storey]

For what it is worth, my records show 3 Centurion Mk 5 Bridgelayers in 1966 and another 2 in 1967.

[Dan Martel]

Originally Posted by Dan Martel

What I can add is that the Canadian Army acquired four bridgelayer Centurions during the mid-60's.

Originally Posted by Ed Storey

For what it is worth, my records show 3 Centurion Mk 5 Bridgelayers in 1966 and another 2 in 1967.

My copy of Dingwall shows CAR's for four Centurion AVLB's:

66-10179
66-10183
66-10187
67-10173

His book also quotes 4 bridgelayers in the inventory by 1971. Which one have he and I missed?

Cheers,
Dan.

[Ed Storey]

Originally Posted by Aide Memoire

(ps. the "s/o" is British admspeak for "struck off" or "sold on" - and apparently "FARELF" is Far East Land Force - or gear pooled for the Malaysian Emergency, apparently surplused from Hong Kong.)

Again for what it is worth my list does not show any Canadian Centurion tank acquisitions after 1954. Canada did use a small number of 1951 vintage Centurions when 27 Brigade was first formed and for which I do not have their WD Nos. Looking at the WD list provided in an earlier post and comparing it to the Centurion card just posted which documents Centurion Mk 5 02ZR59; according to the WD list the ZR series was applied to late 1940s early 1950s vehicles. Is it not possible then that the list is not saying Canada took on 02ZR59 in 1963 but that it was stricken off the brigade strength and sent to the Far east in 1963 as we were then using 'newer' 1953 and 1954 model Centurions in Germany? I am also thinking that this transfer might make sense as in 1963 Canada was still part of the BOAR in Northern Germany.