Bearded soldiers

Just a little off the subject info, In the British army from 1803 to present day it is regimental policy to have one breaded man in the regt, the Sgt of Pioneers /Sappers is the only man to ware a beard (((legally)))) in the British army, on Parade or in Battle, But must be cut and trimmed properly, ((((((Canadian army , I don't have a Clue, can someone enliten me????)))))), I do have the documentation of bearded Pioneers in the British army to back me up, especially in the unit I portry "Royal Northumberland Fusiliers".


Cheers BIG MIKE L. cpl RNF

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

There is an aside to Mike's post above, and it needs no further description...

anyone, I need a head to Chop off!!


RSM BIG MIKE HM 5th foot

[Richard Hughes]

Having previously served in the pioneers I can confirm the reason. It is because traditionally Pioneer sergeants are supposed to light the fuze of the bomb and the hair of the beard is supposed to be the emergency fuze. I don't know how well it worked but things must have been pretty desperate to pull hair from your beard to light a bomb.

Richard Hughes

[centurion]

At one time ALL pioneers wore beards not just the sergeant. The earliest illustration of a bearded pioneer private in the British army I can find in my library is of about 1800. Certainly one of a British pioneer at the siege of Quebec shows a clean shaven guy. In the Napoleonic wars pioneers in most armies were bearded (usually very impressively so - look at some pictures of those of the French Imperial Guard). To confuse the English speaking researcher pioneers the French pioneers were called sappeurs (a tradition carried over into the French fire brigades) as was also the case in some of the various Germanic armies of the time. Their role was not the same as a sapper (who dug saps or siege trenches). Pioneers cleared the undergrowth, felled trees and moved rocks etc . I'd hate to argue with one who was a pioneer but I have a little difficulty with Richard Hughs explanation. Looking at a number of histories of the British Army and its uniforms (including Carman's execellent 5 volume work) its clear that pioneers existed in the British Army since before the time of Elizabeth I and their roles did not include lighting bombs (that dubious distinction fell either to petarders (often hoist) or the artillery depending upon circumstance. The former would be attched to the Sappers (and eventually these became the Royal Engineers) In any case the fuses of bombs were relatively sophisticated and as early as the beginning of 18th century (a hundred years before pioneers were bearded) were made of boxwood tubes filled with specialy milled and corned black powder to achieve a constant burn rate. Hair plucked from a beard could not be substituted. I have come across one, unsubstantiated, explanation that makes some sense and this has a Canadian connection from the 7 years war. It was the custom for some units (both British and French) operating in the Canadian winter (when most troops were in winter quarters) to be bearded simply because beards were warmer. Certainly there are pictures of bearded French marine units and, despite the Hollywood portrayal, Rogers Rangers were often bearded. The story goes that pioneers also had to operate in winter (providing firewood) and unofficially grew beards for the same reason (probably initially shaving them off in the summer) and this was later adopted as a formal round the year 'uniform' together with the axe. One assumes that the Mony Python lumberjacks' song was not adopted as a unit marching song. When the beard was restricted to the sergeant I don't know but I've certainly seen pictures of bearded British pioneer privates fronm the late nineteenth century and I have a recollection of seeing photos of bearded French Foreign Legion pioneers as late as WW2 - some in a jeep I think. I'll have a rummage tonight

Nice discription Centurion. The Pic above is of a Grenidier Sjt in 1774 in a uniform of the British army 1768 uniform warrent. As for the French Pioneers I really don't have a clue to thier pioneers, As for the British Each Regt had 3 Pioneers sgts and 8 pioneer cpl's with and one senior sgt who had a beard all other men were clean shaven, regulations. Winter time most of the pioneers got away with out shaving only if they were not in garrison, but in the field supposedly they got away with it. In battle the pioneers were to protect the colours and rallied around them. When trooping the colours they were attached to the Grenidier co'y's. Equipage they carriered..... (british) Axes Saws and fecien knives and shovels, they were basiclly the Lt Col's men and thier personal items were carried in the bagage train with the officer's bagage. As far as the ww2 jeep pioneers , I think they were British SAS. go view of sum Mexican Pioneers. in the New Movie "The Alamo" at the end assult you Notice 2 Beared Pioneers with leather aprons and Assault Axes they acted like the French army at that period in time as ALL pioneers had beards, Scary bunch of fellows eh?



Cheers BIG MIKE

[centurion]

Originally posted by BIG MIKE
As far as the ww2 jeep pioneers , I think they were British SAS.

Oh come on now, I can tell the difference between SAS and Foreign Legionnaires in a jeep and I know a French pioneer’s uniform when I see one (for a start the former often wore thobes – arab head dress – and the latter kepis).

Originally posted by BIG MIKE
In battle the pioneers were to protect the colours and rallied around them. When trooping the colours they were attached to the Grenidier co'y's.

I’m not sure what dates you are referring to. In Wellington’s army the pioneers did not protect the colours. In battle the Kings and Regimental colours were carried by ensigns with an escort of sergeants officially armed with half pikes (but quite often with firearms sometimes cavalry carbines) and placed immediately behind the battalion commander and between the two central companies. Company colours were no longer carried in battle at this time. [see amongst many sources The Armies of Wellington - P J Heythornthwaite] At one time the whole of the 5th Division was used for road building and earned the nickname The Pioneers. This approach was repeated in WW1.

Originally posted by BIG MIKE
As for the British Each Regt had 3 Pioneers sgts and 8 pioneer cpl's with and one senior sgt who had a beard all other men were clean shaven, regulations. Winter time most of the pioneers got away with out shaving only if they were not in garrison, but in the field supposedly they got away with it.

Beards were very common in the mid Victorian army for both other ranks and officers and all arms of service (interestingly enough the Royal Navy seems to have been less bearded than in later years). I enclose some examples including artillery, cavalry and infantry.

The lancers shown are all survivors of the charge of the Light Brigade note the bearded lance corporal. One photo (too big to post) of the Royal Sappers and Miners of the Crimean period shows a Sergeant, Corporal and Private all bearded. Many well known officers were bearded. A formal shot of the Royal Engineer officers attached to Lord Chelmsford’s command in Zululand has several bearded offices, one wearing a VC – being Lt Chard of Rorkes Drift fame (Lt Bromhead was also bearded – ‘Zulu’ wasn’t completely accurate). Sam BrowneVC (inventor of the belt of the same name) was bearded as was General Sir Garnet Wolseley (the basis for Gilbert and Sullivan’s ‘modern major general’). Highland regiments appear to have been particularly prone to outbreaks of hirsuteness.
By 1890 photos show a major decline in the beard. However Queens Regulations at the time specifically specified that all Pioneers who can grow beards must grow beards. [Army and Navy Gazette 1890]
By WW1 many armies (including the British and New Zealand) were raising pioneer battalions and pioneer companies in the line regiments were becoming effectively ceremonial distinctions (much as the grenadier and light companies were to do). I would guess that it was at this time that the regulation limiting beards came into full effect. The current Logistics Corps in the British Army has subsumed the pioneer battalions

The Persian (Iranian today) army in the 1850s wore European uniforms (based on Napoleons Imperial Guard) and were to a man bearded

[centurion]

Beardy one

[centurion]

Beardy 2

[centurion]

Beardy 3

[centurion]

And finaly the artillery

i'm more into the 1772 to1787 period of the english army, seems you brits never got tought about battle's in the american revolution, you usually go from 7 years war to napolionic. And its True I got 2 lads in thier late 40's thats with my ww2 unit that served in the Royal Dragoons and Life Guards, when they married a yank and moved here in the USA , they said they were never tought about the american revolution. ((((((SAS stuff lol))))))))) you notice tho the bearded Pioneers have much LLLLLLOOOOOOnnnnger Beards of the pics you show. good show tho lad. Cheers


BIG MIKE