Info needed: Building a repro LRDG 1940 Chev.

[Bob Carriere]

I have followed with great interest work done by Andrew and seen pictures of Rick Cove's truck and decided to take the plunge.

I have been sitting on a 1940 Chev 1 1/2 ton truck which is in bad shape so purist need not be concerned and am saving the best parts....also have two spare cabs and lots of CMP dodads. I plan on doing a reasonably accurate repro .... a fun machine that is safe and can be driven on the street......and label it as a repro.

Of particular interest is the model made by Rick as is it similar to mine. Not alone in the asylum as Philippe Jeanneau of Florida is also considering a similar conversion.

Philippe and I are trying to workout the axle issues and rims to be used.

Lots of information has been gleaned from searching the MLU forum and much info is available on the Canadian factory made LRDG based on the 1941_ 42 model but little on the earlier version using 38/39/40 models

I have a complete power train, extra cabs, extra axles, extra front fenders, spare 1 ton rolling frame and a spare freshly rebuilt 235 engine and a fully synchro SM 420 tranny. As I will be using only the front cowl sheet metal the body is fairly simple but would need the expertise of Andrew for the cargo box or go with wood.

What would greatly simplify the building is if we could find C15 or in a pinch a F15 ...... 4x2 front axles...... they are strong and can use regular CMP 16 in. rims. Any rolling chassis C15 / F15 out there??????

I am trying to figure out what size front axle, brakes, rims .... Rick used on his repro and what issues he had with the wheels. I know he found a set of Good Year All weather traction diamond tread 9.5 x 16 tires........ WHICH ARE STILL BEING MADE TODAY...... those are implement tires and I have a new set of Michelin 900 x 16 tires mounted ready to roll.


Not sure if this should not be under the Hammond barn... Hanno advice!!!!



.... the fun begins when the snow melts.......

[Mike Kelly]

Good luck . Interesting project. I think Ricks truck was originally put together by the late Vic Philips . Vic lived at Conargo NSW.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

I know he found a set of Good Year All weather traction diamond tread 9.5 x 16 tires........ WHICH ARE STILL BEING MADE TODAY...... those are implement tires and I have a new set of Michelin 900 x 16 tires mounted ready to roll..

Despite the legal issue of Implement tyres used for Highway service (different jurisdictions place varying emphasis on this, some places you can "get away with it"), I see that the tyre itself is wholly unsuited for a CMP or Truck, 4 would hardly bear the weight!:

Goodyear All Weather Traction R-3
Size: 9.5-16
Load rating/plies: B/4PR
Diameter: 31.9
Rim width (min): 8.0
Max Single Load (lbs): 1100

[Paul Singleton]

Hi Bob,
If I recall the C-15 front axle has the front spring mounting points further apart than a civilian truck. I think the axle is from a cabover truck. I will measure my truck and let you know in a few days. My truck is currently in storage. It may be easier to make up some adapters to allow the CMP wheels to fit your existing hubs, but I am not sure if the track width would be ok.
Paul

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Great project Bob! I think it deserves its own thread so others working on replicas as well can chime in.

Here’s a pic to inspire you. From what I can see here is that those 10.50–16 chevron types you have fitted to your CMPs would well suit the LRDG Chev.

278D1018-A8E3-4CBE-A303-992273015C14.jpeg

[Bob Carriere]

I am a great believer that our successes and failures should be documented on MLU for the future generations..... where else will that information be available.

On the tyres, I have read on official correspondence of the period where they preferred the sand pattern as it was less likely to dig themselves in loose sand and that they preferred a strip down Chev 2x4 to a 4x4 v8 Ford who was too heavy, burned too much gas compared to the GM 216....... water and gasoline being a priority. Some sarcastic comments were made that the special sand tires requested finally got to them when they were being moved for the Italian campaign......

The LRDG now with Rick Cove is puzzling us because the front view ,shows an axle that according to the CMP manuals at hand to be for the C8 with ribbed brake drums. The parts manual has diagram showing the physical differences between the C8 and the C15 front beam axle and there is further differences with the LRDG front axle build in Canada(1941-42) which I believe was taken from a HD COE 3 ton truck with roller bearing instead of bicycle wheel ball bearings. So at this stage I am not sure what his underpinning is....may have been a 3/4 ton truck...but I know it looks good.

The frame width which will affect the spring brackets width will be something we need to look at closer as pointed out by Paul.

The Good Year All Weather tire in 9.5x16 seem to be available in various ply ratings...some up to 2250 max load....... but they are manufactured sporadically as the demands / back orders stackup. The are popular on golf courses in the states.

We also have to consider whether we are using a flat cowl with a flat hand made dash and round instruments or a civilian curved dash panel with the typical 1940 rectangular instrument cluster such as a C 15A....... windshield post stubs or not.... even with or w/o windshield.....

Since most of the fun is in the hunt we are having a ball.......

comments, suggestions, pitfalls all are welcomed.

Cheers

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Paul Singleton

Hi Bob,
If I recall the C-15 front axle has the front spring mounting points further apart than a civilian truck. I think the axle is from a cabover truck. ... It may be easier to make up some adapters to allow the CMP wheels to fit your existing hubs, but I am not sure if the track width would be ok.
Paul

Does the answer to the question of the front axle have to be an "All or None" situation? I'm thinking that the C15 style hubs (pictured in post #5) and spindles might be able to be fitted on to the narrower civvy beam axle by pulling the kingpins and swapping them over?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Bob,

Are you in touch with:

• Andrew H.? See his thread Our LRDG Chev
• paul Lincoln?

You may want to contact these guys too:

• http://www.lrdg.org/
• http://lrdg.de/
• http://www.desert-vehicles.org/

Some more related threads:

• Chevrolet 1533X2 30cwt trucks
• 10-stud 16" rims
• Unusual desert ( INDIAN ? ) Chev
• Chevys of the Indian Long Range Patrol
• Early chevrolet in desert war

I have these manuals which may be of interest for cross checking part numbers, even though they are American:

• TM10-1525 Chevrolet 1-1/2 ton 4x2 truck maintenance manual
• TM19-1524 parts list for same, 1942

And oh, did you read Wheels & Tracks magazine #8?

ISSUE No. 8 (July 1984)
Desert Chevrolets - a lone Long Range Desert Group survivor and its contemporaries.

HTH,
Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

I have been sitting on a 1940 Chev 1 1/2 ton truck which is in bad shape so purist need not be concerned and am saving the best parts....also have two spare cabs and lots of CMP dodads. I plan on doing a reasonably accurate repro .... a fun machine that is safe and can be driven on the street......and label it as a repro.

Of particular interest is the model made by Rick as is it similar to mine.

Re-reading your first post, I see you must be referring to a 1940 Chevrolet WB 30 cwt 4x2 truck.

At first I thought you were going to replicate the Chevy 30cwt 1533x2 like others have done, in that case 6.00-16 W.D. spilt rims could be sourced from one of your parts trucks in the back 40.

Looking at the WB model, I wonder if they could be civilians rims, possibly widened and mounted inside out?

14149513684_99872abd41_b.jpg Chev WB rim.JPG

[Alex van de Wetering]

Bob,

You might want to search for this French magazine. I had the issue in question at some stage, but as I can't find it anywhere, I think I might have recycled it in the meantime

http://fr.1001mags.com/parution/vehi...5-jun-jui-2007

https://librairie-hussard.com/catalo...00186_252.html

You can actually view the pages of the article in small format through the first link.

Alex

[Bob Carriere]

Thanks Hanno for the many links that I will research......

...and thanks Alex..... Philippe from Florida has shared that article with me.....

On the wheels/rims...... It seems that the easiest solution has been found in Australia..... you weld a full steel plate on the backside of the regular 16 inch CMP rim and have it accurately drilled to the ten bolt pattern of the 1940 Chev........
and mount them backwards on your truck......and Hanno is right I do have a few rolling CMP chassis that I can scrounge rims from......

According to the French article it took them at least 4 years to get their project done so I am not in a race but it should be a nice challenge.... I am sure some small part will give me the biggest headache..... and widening the front fenders is another challenge

Big problem now is waiting for the snow to melt. I have a complete a 1940 1 1/2 ton Chev pickup and a rolling chassis fully restored for a 1937 1 ton BUT it seem to have the smaller axles more similar to the C8 but the frame may be identical to the 1 1/2 ton...... in any event the frame will be re-inforced with a flat side plate as observed on other models.

The big issue now is trying to match the track of the front axle with the rear axle...or at least get close with in a few inches. The 1940 truck has a 4 1/4 extended spacer on the front and that situates the front tire in middle of the dual tires at the back....once CMP split rims are fitted the rear axle it may be too narrow and need a spacer between the brake drum and the reversed CMP rim to line up.... or I may wind up using a full CMP rear axle which is easy enough on a 4x2 truck. Cargo box is as easy as following Andrew's fabrication. One thingto keep inmind is that the 1940 bolt pattern is "hubcentric" so care must be exercised in modifying the rims to insure the 4 3/4 central heart is still aligned properly..........

Lots of little issues to sort out. Hoping to take advantage of the experience of our friends down under who have done a few LRDG and they look the parts.

With the two spare axles, spare nose and two spare front fenders, 2 spare cabs and the back 40 to pick the odd CMP parts, I should be able to do something respectable.....I do have a good radiator, rebuilt 235 engine, SM420 tranny .....sadly I will not be able to decorate with anything that looks remotely like a machine gun in Canada........ may be a sling shot!!!!!

Tire wise I have a full set of new Michelin 900x16 mounted on CMP rims so for the immediate future I am well shod!!!!!!

...and I keep an eye open for 1938-39 and 40 parts trucks that do come up every now and then..... just missed one in Buffalo NY.... or another CMP rolling chassis .......

Thinking of using two driver's bucket seats from either Dodge M37/43 or 2 1/2 ton trucks for comfort....suitably recovered in light canvass.

Aero screens make look nice and may have to build my own from photographs.

Having Philippe in Florida to bounce crazy ideas on one another is also helpful.

And the insanity goes on!!!!

Cheers

[Mike Kelly]

The Indian pattern ambulance Aust. Had 10 stud hubs on the rear axle and 5 stud hubs on the front axle. 18" wheels . They used a blanking off ring to hide the 5 holes for the front wheels.

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=22433

[Mike Kelly]

Here is the ambo with the 10 stud wheels fitted on the 5 stud front hubs . The spare wheel is seen with 10 stud .

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Pic of the Chev WA replica by the LRDG living history group of Paul Lincoln (see post #8).

PS: I hope the snow is melting...

0FC5939D-CB76-4E33-871A-8EBCC83D8AA4.jpg

[Bob Carriere]

..............slowly getting educated............ I keep going back to old threads and reading/viewing again and again and noticing new things every time...

Bob C

[Bob Carriere]

...from Hanno...

NOT a "pure" LRDG but still very interesting.

Although an Indian pattern with wooden bench seats it does depict a special purpose truck for wide open country....

Some observations...

Flat cowl 1938 or 39 Chev truck probably a 3/4 ton model.....

Nice areo wind screens.
No modification done to the front fenders.
Interesting 6 nut wheels with an additional (x)series of nuts to hold the two part rim together.
Wheel/tires look like they may be 13 inches...?
No visible water expansion tank.
Right Hand Drive.
Cargo box looks very similar construction to the truck on display in the London museum....also looks like wood boards on the box sides....

PS....Hanno the snow as melted....now waiting for the mud to dry!!!!

[Paul Singleton]

Bob, I sent you a personal message.
Paul

[Mike Kelly]

Bob

Plenty of RHD Chevy components in this part of the world.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

A futher search yielded these were Chevrolet 1311X3 15-cwt 4x2 GS truck (1/2-ton 115" W.B., adapted from the civilian Chevy AK model; X3 = CKD for India). These were used by the LRDG

Bob,

You wrote "My close second choice but intimidated by all the wooden "cabinetry" required."

From what I can see these Indian Pattern 15-cwt bodies had the same dimensions as the No1 Australian body, and were very similar in construction. See the link to the thread for drawings made by a professional draftsman, kindly supplied by Robert Sexton.

HTH,
Hanno

[Bob Carriere]

Thanks Hanno

Now tell me"How do I save the drawings on my computer?"

....and I suppose that the tailgate was never drawn up....... but I can extrapolate for the building style of the box...

One final question.......Was a similar box ever built in Canada for the early C8 and C15....in cab 11 style???

I may have to look for a 1940 Chev Pickup for the front piece. There are two different size cabs and fender sizes....one for the 1/2 and 3/4 ton model BUT the one I have is the larger cab for the 1 1/2 to 3 ton 1533.......

I also have a fully restored 1 ton 1937 rolling frame mounted on 16 inch rims of 5 x 5 1/2 bolt pattern......custom wheels can be made in 9 inch width to handle the 9.5 diamond sand grip tires. The advantage of using the 1937 is that as a 1 ton the rear frame is flat with no curvature for the rear axle.

However the wheelbase of the 1937 one ton is 122 1/2......seven inches longer than the 115 for the 15cwt pickup model. The 37 frame has been sand blasted and painted, drums turned, new bearings, new wheel cylinder and his an open rear end much easier to get a driveshaft made up.

I just love the look of the early conversion done to the 39-40 models with the bulbous front fenders and grill mounted headlights.

Thanks for making me "think" .......

Bob C