Ford Radiator Pipe

[m606paz]

Hi Boys
Will any of you have a tube nearby to take measurements?
A: Length
B: Diameter

In another post they commented that the curve is about 57 degrees

Thanks in advance

[Jacques Reed]

Hi Mariano,

See attached. Taken off original pipe. Measurements taken on area where the tube is not wasted.

Dimensions are taken at centre line as best as I can judge. OD of tube is 1-3/4"

I used my adjustable angle then transferred it to paper and got 55 degrees using a protractor.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

[m606paz]

Jacques, you are a Master! Thank you very much for your help!
Now a found a exhaust workshop to made a pair!
Best regards!

[Jacques Reed]

Hi Mariano,

Always glad to help.

Would be a good idea to add an inch either end and then trim to suit. In fact, you may need a few extra inches on the cylinder head end for the bending machine to have something to work with.

It is a lot easier to cut off a bit than try to stretch a tube!

Cheers,

[m606paz]

Hi Jacques
I found a pair of pipes. Have same diameter.... seems to be from another Ford truck....
I think cut the large 90° large curve and weld the straight section
This cutting and welding job can be a solution

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Bren carrier pipes I think.

[m606paz]

Cut and weldind with Mig

[Jacques Reed]

Hi Mariano,

It might be worth noting that the radius of the bend at the cylinder head should be as close as possible to the original size to ensure the pipe lines up with the connecting hose and inlet pipes on the radiator.
If the radius is much larger than original, the pipe will want to line up higher, but still parallel to the inlet pipes on the radiator. The hose at the radiator will compensate for some misalignment in any event if not excessive.

Cheers,

[Lynn Eades]

Keep in mind, that the pipe locates the thermostat.

[Tony Smith]

That's a good point to remind us of, Lynn.

I think a lot of issues relating to overheating and the old argument of to have/not have a thermostat, don't put enough emphasis of the seating of the thermostat. (Just a rehash of the argument, there are people who have various schools of thought on keeping a Ford V8 cool; "no thermostat" to provide constant flow of coolant, "washer with a hole" to provide a constant flow, but keep it in the block a little longer, and "fit a thermostat" because that's how Henry made them.)

I like to fit a thermostat (160deg, for those who want to know), but it can only work like it's supposed to if it is snugly seated to the head outlet.

Ford designed these to have the metal radiator pipe fit down onto the thermostat and the hose to clamp it all in place. But modern practice is to have say 1/2" clearance inside the hose between the pipe and head, to allow the radiator pipe to flex a little to help aligning it to the radiator. The problem is also compounded with some retailers selling a complete rubber hose from head to radiator with no solid pipe section. This is OK IF you fit an additional clamp around the hose to crimp it a little to retain the thermostat on the head outlet. If you don't, the thermostat can lift off the head outlet and flow will bypass the thermostat.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

That's a good point to remind us of, Lynn.

I think a lot of issues relating to overheating and the old argument of to have/not have a thermostat, don't put enough emphasis of the seating of the thermostat. (Just a rehash of the argument, there are people who have various schools of thought on keeping a Ford V8 cool; "no thermostat" to provide constant flow of coolant, "washer with a hole" to provide a constant flow, but keep it in the block a little longer, and "fit a thermostat" because that's how Henry made them.)

I like to fit a thermostat (160deg, for those who want to know), but it can only work like it's supposed to if it is snugly seated to the head outlet.

Ford designed these to have the metal radiator pipe fit down onto the thermostat and the hose to clamp it all in place. But modern practice is to have say 1/2" clearance inside the hose between the pipe and head, to allow the radiator pipe to flex a little to help aligning it to the radiator. The problem is also compounded with some retailers selling a complete rubber hose from head to radiator with no solid pipe section. This is OK IF you fit an additional clamp around the hose to crimp it a little to retain the thermostat on the head outlet. If you don't, the thermostat can lift off the head outlet and flow will bypass the thermostat.

BTW, We all know cooling the Ford V8 is all about Ignition Timing and not the Radiator, don't we?

[m606paz]

Thanks for all your comments!
I forgot the thermostat!!
Where? Inside botton pipe?

[Lynn Eades]

On top of the heads.
The purpose of the thermostats is to bring the engine quickly to operating temp. and to maintain a constant operating temp. in the interests of efficiency (minimum temp) and longevity. There are many that come up with reasons why not to run them, but those arguments are usually flawed.

[m606paz]

Thank you Lynn!

Any CMP flathead thermostat pic for share? Parts manual no have any drawing...

I found this from Google

[Jacques Reed]

Hi Mariano,

This is one I got many years ago. Pretty sure they are the correct ones. Fit nicely in the heads with the pipe holding it down as Tony mentioned.

Marked "Cleveland Ohio" "Made in USA" and a "6" and "41" which I would think are the date of manufacture.

Cheers,

[Jacques Reed]

Hi Mariano,

Here is some info straight from the Ford Special Pattern Vehicles Handbook.

Cheers,

[Tony Smith]

The images posted by Mariano and Jacques are of the original "Bellows" design thermostats. They fit snugly into the outlet of the head and don't pose much problems with shifting. But these are no longer manufactured in that style anymore, with only 2nd hand or NOS available, which may be 50 years or more in age.

The modern style of thermostat pictured below are all that are made these days, and can be specified in a wide range of suitable temperatures. However, without the cylindrical body of the Bellows type, they do not locate quite as well in the head outlet, and need some sort of physical restraint to stay put ON the outlet, otherwise they lift off and can allow coolant to flow past it.

[Lynn Eades]

Yes, these would have been correct, but!,... they are alcohol filled and more importantly, they usually fail in the closed position.
A more standard type (modern) wax type thermostat is more likely to fail in the open position (less likely to cook your engine) and I believe, are more reliable.
I bought thermostats for my carrier from a parts supplier that had a big selection of thermostats. Some cars use smaller dia. wax stat. They fit in the top hoses on top of the heads. Some guys cut down the bigger ones, but that looked a bit hard to me.
So, What I installed were Tridon (brand)TT203-180. Obviously 180 degree but they have worked fine. (the higher your operating temperature, the more efficient is you engine, as long as it is not overheating) They are 44mm in dia. and are used in a v6 Holden (VX, VY)

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Yes, these would have been correct, but!,... they are alcohol filled and more importantly, they usually fail in the closed position.
A more standard type (modern) wax type thermostat is more likely to fail in the open position (less likely to cook your engine) and I believe, are more reliable.
I bought thermostats for my carrier from a parts supplier that had a big selection of thermostats. Some cars use smaller dia. wax stat. They fit in the top hoses on top of the heads. Some guys cut down the bigger ones, but that looked a bit hard to me.
So, What I installed were Tridon (brand)TT203-180. Obviously 180 degree but they have worked fine. (the higher your operating temperature, the more efficient is you engine, as long as it is not overheating) They are 44mm in dia. and are used in a v6 Holden (VX, VY)

Good Info Lynn,

On that basis I will just keep them on the shelf and go the more modern ones. Think I paid $10 about 25 years ago for the two so no great loss!

Cheers,

[m606paz]

Very good all the comments!
I will discard looking for the originals and place the modern ones!
Thank you very much!!

[Colin Alford]

Mariano,

Please see these pictures of a Ford CMP radiator pipe compared to one from a Universal Carrier.

As others have mentioned, the angles might prove to be a problem.

Colin

[m606paz]

Colin
Many thanks for your pics

My Flathead actualy have a long hose betwin cylinder head and radiator.

I need disassembly to know i have the thermostat inside hose...

[Lynn Eades]

Obviously these angles change depending on the set up. Rad inlet shape and angle , height of radiator, distance of radiator from engine etc.
Sometimes the rubber hoses have a smaller dia. while the ends are bigger. This allows the hose to locate the thermostat

[Jacques Reed]

Here is a nifty simple way one guy keeps the thermostats from shifting in the water outlets of an early Ford V8.

Courtesy of the Ford Barn

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=172319

Cheers,

[Lynn Eades]

Jacques, I have seen that before. I think it's overkill and water is probably going to leak around the wires. There are better methods, in my opinion.

[m606paz]

Like Colin pics, my pipes have 1 inch more length and the angle, not the same.

[Lynn Eades]

This is a way to hold the thermostats. I think this was an Australian made (McKay?)hose for some flathead V8 application.
Anyhow, if you go to an automotive hose supplier you can usually buy appropriate bends and join with a straight tube. You can also add a metal ring inside the hose to hold the thermostat in place. This would require an extra hose clamp.

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Jacques, I have seen that before. I think it's overkill and water is probably going to leak around the wires. There are better methods, in my opinion.

Lynn, I did think much the same, leakage at wires, but just put it out there for interest. Perhaps a fair bit of Permatex was also used which wasn't mentioned!

Cheers,

[Jacques Reed]

Good Day,

I decided to re-do my radiator inlet pipes on my F15-A. I had them made up years ago at an auto exhaust system shop but there were two things wrong with them.

The pipes were done on a typical exhaust shop pipe bending machine which bends by the crush bending method. This results in the pipe not being round shaped at the bend. The machine was also not capable of making a CLR (Center Line Radius) as short as the original pipes. The larger CLR, and distorted pipe at the bend, meant that in order to have a round pipe at the clamping area at the head, the pipe had to extend further than the original. This now causes misalignment with the inlet pipe on the radiator which is angled 60 degrees to the radiator core. If you chop off some of it, you are now clamping the hose on the bend at the distorted part of the pipe. Neither solution is very good.

I read about mandrel bending of exhaust pipes and thought that would be the way to go. The mandrel inside the pipe during the bending operation keeps the round cross section shape and tighter bends can be performed. Exhaust pipe, 1-3/4” diameter- same as the radiator pipes, could be mandrel bent to a CLR of 1-1/2 times the OD. In this case a CLR of 2-5/8”. Laying off that radius, and the pipe inside and outside radius on a piece of paper, it was a perfect match to my original pipes- Bingo!

To get them bent however, proved problematic. Most shops wanted $150 just for the set up cost of the machine. Then there was the labour cost of bending at $30 each plus materials. Some also wanted me to pay for a full length of tubing even though they could probably use the left over for other jobs. Some wanted a minimum 30 pieces produced.
It was looking like it was not going to be economically feasible.

I found an exhaust system supplier that had off-the-shelf elbows, mild steel, mandrel bent 60 degrees, 2-5/8” CLR, and best of all, reasonably priced- $14.40 each. I approached them to make the radiator pipes by just making the long leg the correct length and I would cut the short leg to fit. They claimed they would still have to reset the bending machine with the aforementioned setup costs. My skepticism arose, 60 degrees is 60 degrees on any length tube, but maybe it was true?

Back to the drawing board:
I thought why not use the off-the-shelf elbows they sold, and attach them to pieces of 1-3/4” exhaust pipe? As luck would have it, the wrong crush bent pipes were just long enough on the straight section to graft onto their elbows. I had a piece of 1-5/8” diameter exhaust pipe leftover from my tailpipe which fits nicely inside to make joiners.Two pieces of 1-5/8” exhaust pipe 2” long each made the joiners.

So for a reasonable cost I have two radiator pipes that are close to original, in design and appearance, and as an added bonus, are made of tubing with 1.8 mm wall thickness instead of 1.2 mm thickness as measured on a good original pipe. They will outlast me for sure. Will weld them up this week and job done.

Before this, I spent some time scouring around the net for repros or NOS pipes with no success. The part is not unique to Ford CMP’s and would have been used by commercial vehicles also. I was surprised no one produced them but then again, restored cars far outnumber restored trucks.

I am sure many other methods would also work such as using flexible hose, modifying Ford repro hoses, etc. This is just my method to replicate originals which may be of interest.

Cheers,

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Interesting thread, thanks!