Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, A.A.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

This thread is to gather information about the Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, A.A.


From: http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/20_mm_aa_guns.htm

Page from British Data Book (reprint) showing the CMP portee with gun mount, but no gun.



Page from the AEDB Design Record showing a Canadian Military Pattern 20mm AA 15 Cwt Cab 13 truck under test (thus the "EE" on the door) probably the prototype:



A 20mm gun mounted on a Universal Mounting on the back of a CMP 15 Cwt, War Department number Z 5194984. Photo - Andy Morgan



A 20mm gun, possibly the same one as shown above, shown deployed on the ground. Photo - Andy Morgan

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Pictures of the single 4x4 prototype - production models were on 4x2 C15, F15 and Bedford MW chassis only.




Pictures courtesy of Clive Law.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Details of Body 2L1.



Pictures courtesy of Clive Law.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Deploying the gun:



Pictures courtesy of Clive Law.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

See Unique 1943 Canadian Ford F15(AA) for pictures of the only restored example in the world.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

See C15 4x2 for pictures of an unrestored and still very original C15, albeit without the Polsten gun.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

They were used operationally in NW Europe, although after the Allies gained air superiority, the trucks were relegated to other duties.

Pic below was taken on 08 Jun 1944 On a Normandy beach. Reportedly the unit which used them was the 15th (Isle of Man) Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Bedford MW version of this truck:

[John A. Rippingham]

Hello Hanno,

I can add a little information about the Bedford variant, for what it's worth. There were only 250 made. I found this photocopy in the box of Bedford contract cards at bovington tank museum.



Does anyone know what book this came from and does anyone have a copy?

and the contract card for 200.

[Jordan Baker]

At the 1:40 mark.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ect/1060019646


At the 1:18 mark

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ect/1060019647

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Great find, Jordan - thanks!

Originally Posted by Jordan Baker

At the 1:40 mark. https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ect/1060019646


"A 119th LAA Regiment RA Morris Bofors self-propelled gun leads a column of troop-carrying CMP trucks through the deserted and derelict town of Caumont."

At the 1:18 mark https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ect/1060019647

"A Morris Bofors self-propelled gun and two Canadian military-pattern tracks armed with Oerlikon 20mm cannons, all probably from 119th LAA Regiment RA, drive through the ruined town of Caumont followed by other 8th Corps military traffic."

Both these films were shot at the same location and they both show the same pair of 4x2 AA trucks.

This is new footage to me and the first time I saw them actually moving!

[Keith Orpin]

Thanks Jordan,
As Hanno said, it's the first time I have seen these rare conversions actually on the move, both of them are Ford F15's, towing 10 cwt trailers
Great find
Keith

[Steve Guthrie]

A C15A chassis by the look of it. Hanno thinks the body and gun were transferred from a 4x2 chassis. Canadian Army Photo

[Jordan Baker]

The platform is different. Check out the are above the wheels.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Steve Guthrie

A C15A chassis by the look of it. Hanno thinks the body and gun were transferred from a 4x2 chassis. Canadian Army Photo

Thanks Steve. Actually, after looking at it again, I see a cut-down and modified steel 15-cwt body. Probably a 2C1.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by John A. Rippingham

I can add a little information about the Bedford variant, for what it's worth. There were only 250 made. I found this photocopy in the box of Bedford contract cards at bovington tank museum.

John, thanks for that.

Here is a great picture of the production version of the Bedford MW "Polsten" AA truck.

If I read it correctly it's WD census number is Z5194317.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by John A. Rippingham

and the contract card for 200.

Hello John,

Do I understand correctly the chassis + cabs for the 20-mm AA trucks were based on MWC water tanker chassis? (The bodies were fitted by outside contractors.)

[Preston Isaac]

At the start of Jordan Baker's video there is what looks like a Windsor with its canvas up ? If so quite unusual to see an action photo of a Windsor, especially with the canvas up.
Preston Isaac

Originally Posted by Jordan Baker

At the 1:40 mark.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ect/1060019646

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Preston Isaac

At the start of Jordan Baker's video there is what looks like a Windsor with its canvas up ? If so quite unusual to see an action photo of a Windsor, especially with the canvas up.

Hello Preston,

Nice catch! I think is a Universal Carrier, though. IIRC Windsors were not used yet on 1944-07-31 when this footage was shot. Anyhow, it is rare to see a Carrier with a canvas tilt!

[Preston Isaac]

Hi Hanno, Sadly I think you are correct. I was carried away (forgive the pun) with the overall look of the canvas and the hoops. Many thanks Preston.

[Keith Orpin]

Hi Hanno,
Cracking pictures of the 15 cwt Bedford AA mount. Interesting to note the "Mickey mouse " camouflage scheme , and the additional lockers above the two upright lockers, which housed the .303 rounds.
Thanks for posting
Keith

[Lynn Eades]

.303 rounds? or 20mm Keith? Polsten being a simplified Oerlikon, but both being a 20mm cannon (auto)

[Keith Orpin]

Hi Lynn,
The upright lockers contained the 303 rounds, and the horizontal lockers contained the 4 off 20mm loaded snail drums, 60 rounds per drum.
The 10 cwt towed trailer had the rest of the ammo in (600 rounds of 20mm ammo and 746 rounds of 303 ammo) plus the crew kit etc. Bear in mind the crew had a Bren gun and probably a 303 rifle each.
I'm not sure I would want to be towing this trailer about with all this ammo on board !
Best regards
Keith

[Wolfy]

3 more CMP Polsten carriers.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Thanks for sharing these, Wolfy. These large format pictures are a nice addition to the thread

Alex

[Wolfy]

and the much less well known Fordson WOT 2 variant -

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Wolfy

and the much less well known Fordson WOT 2 variant -

Great find, Carleton!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another great find by Niels Vegger: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ect/1060008447

“II. Large numbers of Fordson fifteen-hundredweight trucks, Morris light utility cars and Canadian military-pattern trailer tractors (sic) are stored alongside a branch of the Great Western Railway at No 55 Vehicle Reserve Depot, Little Stretton, Shropshire.”

Screenshots of above footage attached here:

[Keith Orpin]

Agree with Hanno, great find
What's interesting is the partial use of camouflage on the locker system, which housed the snail drums and .303 rounds.
Question is, what type of camo was this ( bearing in mind this was early 44, could it be foliage ?), and why was this only on the locker system, and not the rest of the CMP.

[Alan McGuinness]

Originally Posted by Wolfy

and the much less well known Fordson WOT 2 variant -

IWM photo H39753: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205511241