Blitz with dual wheels?

warren brown · #1 05-12-12, 02:03

Hello everyone, a local farmer was telling me he has a Blitz - "a late model one fitted with dual wheels." Was this ever the case or is this another "My uncle posted an entire jeep home piece by piece from New Guinea" stories?
Cheers Warren.

Grant Bowker · #2 05-12-12, 02:13

The only Blitz I'm aware of that were produced with dual rear wheels were the Australian tippers, but there might be others I need educating about.

warren brown · #3 05-12-12, 02:19

Thanks Grant! The way he said it was something like 'they came with dual wheels at the end of the war' - which was news to me...It might be a tipper I suppose - I'll see if I can get a look at it..

Harry Moon · #4 05-12-12, 03:01

When i visited the Reynolds collection back in 99 in Alberta they had at least 6 CMP's farmerized but they had Duals on the back with compatible rims on the front. 2 and 4 wheel drive as i recall. i didn't take any pictures of those at the time as I was taking pictures of ones i wanted to buy. never did sell any to me.
Also on that thread on the spare tire carrier that CMP obviously had duals.

lynx42 · #5 05-12-12, 04:06

"a local farmer was telling me he has a Blitz - "a late model one fitted with dual wheels." Was this ever the case-"

Hello Warren,

Here are a couple of dual wheeled Blitz's in military service.

(I thought Cliff might have beaten me to it as they come from his archives.)

Regards Rick

Bob Carriere · #6 05-12-12, 04:14

There were some dual wheels set up for civilian use that were fitted on the original CMP axles. Apparently the dual wheel fitted perfectly on the CMP axle spindle....... voila instant duallies.

To my knowledge none were original Canadian military conversion.

Bob

Harry Moon · #7 05-12-12, 04:25

Same as my 20CWT trailer, the spindals for the Budd wheels easily took the CMP drums and wheels.

warren brown · #8 05-12-12, 04:39

I see! So is the stud pattern on a CMP compatible with a GMC or Studebaker. This might sound ridiculously naiive but I'd never thaought of it before...

Bob Carriere · #9 05-12-12, 04:49

Not sure about the stud pattern.... the 8 bolt pattern of the CMP is rather unique.

When they installed duals on a CMP they installed the civilian brake drums, and the two civilian rims which fitted perfectly on the CMP axle spindle...... backing brake plate and brake linings were the same size as the CMP so everything worked fine. The typical civilian duals I have seen on CMPs are either 5 or 6 bolt pattern Budd wheels with 5 circular holes/opening cut out of the rim as seen on 1955 GM 3 to 5 ton trucks.

Bob

Harry Moon · #10 05-12-12, 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by warren brown

I see! So is the stud pattern on a CMP compatible with a GMC or Studebaker. This might sound ridiculously naiive but I'd never thaought of it before...

The spindle for the brake drum not the studs for the wheel.

lynx42 · #11 05-12-12, 08:00

Warren, Don't you remember that your Stude US6 had 6 stud wheels and your C60X has 8 studs. The tyres are interchangeable being 7.50 X 20" on the Stude and are the same on the F60S Tippers.( Not the C60X).

No drum or stud changes here in Australia Harry and Bob. The English Bedford and Austin 7.50x20" wheels fit straight on without changing brake drums or anything else allowing duals on the rear and a more centralized to the brake drum, front tyre.

Regards Rick.

Ganmain Tony · #12 05-12-12, 09:05

F60S. Fitted with duals.

Three of the rear wheels look like post war but one looks authentic military.

Obviously I cant verify if it had a tipper body but the tow hooks position may provide a clue.

BSM · #13 05-12-12, 11:30

An early 50's pic of the rear of a Tractors Artillery No. 6. Aust. based on a C60S chassis and sporting an extra wheel. Rod

Tony Smith · #14 05-12-12, 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by lynx42

Warren, Don't you remember that your Stude US6 had 6 stud wheels and your C60X has 8 studs. The tyres are interchangeable being 7.50 X 20" on the Stude and are the same on the F60S Tippers.( Not the C60X).

Regards Rick.

The Aust Tippers with Duals used 8.25-20 tyres. Most definately 8 stud and used the standard CMP hubs/brakes, etc. Not just a straightforward swap with Bedfrod or Austin wheels, the front hubs has a spacer used because of the excessive offset of the dual wheel rim (as evidenced in Ganmain Tony's pic above without the spacer).

If anyone want to give duals a run for their money, there's a set of six on e-bay at the moment:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Chev-Blit...item1c2e00f804

warren brown · #15 05-12-12, 23:21

Sorry Rick - I'd engaged typing before engaging brain. As soon as I'd sent I realised. (It's 17 years since I had the Stude! Wow!) interesting about the austin/ Bedford swap over. The 1920s Dennis fire engines I have do the same - often they,d replace the big vintage disc wheels with standard Bedford wheels no worries. In fact one of the fire engines has Bedford rear wheels at the moment. Anyway I'll go and have a look at this farmers truck and report back. Warren

Mike Cecil · #16 07-12-12, 01:11

Warren

In case the Bailey Bridge sections misled you, the images posted by Rick C are both tippers, just different models. The Aust Army's CMP range of trucks during WW2 had only one series with duals as standard as far as I'm aware: tippers. Post war, some No.6 LAA tractors were so fitted as well, with Units equipped with both single and dual wheel-ed tractors.

Tyre size for tippers with duals was 8.25x20.

The spacers for the front wheels were essential to retain the steering geometry (king pin angle to point on the ground where the centre of the tyre was)

Regards

Mike C

Hanno Spoelstra · #17 07-12-12, 11:29

I got this message plus picture in my mailbox:

Quote:

Hi guys,

I'm a lurker, not a member, but the Softskin forum has a current thread dealing with 'Blitz' dual wheels.

You may be interested in the attached pic, which although it doesn't show it clearly, you can however just make out the dual wheels behind my late father's right leg (esp. the patch of light on the ground between the duals). It also plainly shows the 'Blitz' being used as a prime-mover with semi-trailer attached.

The pic. is of Allan Layton after being demobbed to the Aust Army Service Corp, 3rd Military District General Transport Company shortly after WWII.

regards
Allan Layton (jnr.)

Mike Cecil · #18 07-12-12, 17:21

Yes, I hadn't included the wartime 'Tractors' in my post .... just the Trucks.

Mike C

Howard · #19 09-12-12, 00:34

My F60S Tipper Link to Keith's Page is fitted with dual wheels.
The front wheels are standard fare, retro-fitted when one of the offset wheels was damaged by a tree stump. But that's not the interesting part of my post.
The truck was used for taking the cereal harvest to the receivals. The problem with the duals was that the outside tyres actually straddled the weighbridge, and therefore gave inaccurate weight measurements.
This was solved by the fitment of duals with a different offset. The photo attached shows one wheel fitted with one of each.
SO I am guessing that the military supplied wheels had a greater offset than the civilian items?

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H

Keith Webb · #20 09-12-12, 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

I got this message plus picture in my mailbox:

This truck didn't start life as a semi trailer tractor, it was in fact a tractor of a different sort, a No6 Bofors LAA tractor which as we have seen were often adapted to use these wheels. It's original engine umber was PR3874462, chassis 28442200698, disposal date May 8th 1959 at 3BoD.

Allan, is it possible to get a large scan of this image please? You can contact me via Hanno.

Mike Cecil · #21 09-12-12, 20:53

Well spotted Keith! And yes, what a nice image it is.

The Unit sign is S = South Australia and '105', which was a General Transport Company, hence South Australia GT Company, so this is a vehicle in 4th Military District (South Australia) rather than 3MD (Victoria).

Mike C

warren brown · #22 09-12-12, 22:33

Hi everyone -went out and had squizz at this truck yesterday. The chassis was standing in long grass - full of brown snakes. On saturday the farmer's Jack Russell terrier cornered a brown snake - the snake reared up like a cobra and the dog kept at it - eventually the snake decided to leave but the dog had it by the tail - the snake dragging the little dog through the grass! Ugh! The farmer said he thought 'the dog was a goner' but it happily the little bloke wasn't bitten. The farmer - who's a classic car buff - Ford Customline, XP falcons etc - had pulled the Blitz apart to restore it and so the truck's been in pieces for some time. The chassis was very good indeed - surface-rusty, but not rusted - but the cab sitting next to it was exceptional. No rust in it whatsover and straight. In his shed were the guards, engine etc - the panel work was like new, the steel doors fantastic, so at least those bits had been out of the elements. I think - it's a C60S (?) and i'm guessing it was a tipper - someone might be able to tell from the photos. The ID plate might say something - but I don't really know the ins and outs of those. Certainly it's a rare model as you can see it's fitted with a Hills Hoist.

Keith Webb · #23 09-12-12, 22:49

Yes it's a C60S chassis and what's more (if I read right) it is WO78 which was a No6 arty tractor, not a tipper, although it seems to be missing the winch mount side plates.
The chassis number (again if I read correctly) is 28442S00644 which would mean it had ARN 73618, was built in Sydney, delivered to Melbourne. Only thing which doesn't line up is the engine number listed for that truck in the records...
Did you get a shot of the cab showing the back wall? If it was a No6 it should have the speaking tube unique to these and ambulances.
The Hills Hoist is definitely a rare addition!
The other mystery is why a Ford man has a Chev in his collection.

warren brown · #24 09-12-12, 23:07

Thanks Keith! That sounds interesting! The farmer said the truck came from up Canowindra way and that's all I could get about its history - his Blitz knowledge wasn't particularly great - which is easy to understand as they just bought it as a farm vehicle way back when. So - would arethe dual wheels correct?

Keith Webb · #25 09-12-12, 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by warren brown

Thanks Keith! That sounds interesting! The farmer said the truck came from up Canowindra way and that's all I could get about its history - his Blitz knowledge wasn't particularly great - which is easy to understand as they just bought it as a farm vehicle way back when. So - would arethe dual wheels correct?

Correct for a modified No6 at least.

warren brown · #26 09-12-12, 23:18

Actually Keith - I didnt get a shot of the back wall - I kid you not, everyone was jumpy about snakes yesterday - it was bloody hot and we've got copperheads and tiger snakes out in force at the moment too. The Jack Russell - being about the size of shoe - kept charging into the grass only to disappear and everyone was nervy he'd resurface with a brown snake in his jaws. The farmer had bits of the truck all over the place - in sheds - in the paddock - so those missing bits could be around. The whole thing nearly went to the tip a few weeks ago - his-son-in-law was ready to hoik it all - but mercifully he saved it. And yes - it occurred to me it was strange having a Chev when he could have a Ford...

Richard Farrant · #27 09-12-12, 23:58

Geez Warren, stop talking about those damn snakes, I have started to twitch

Keith Webb · #28 10-12-12, 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

Geez Warren, stop talking about those damn snakes, I have started to twitch

Maybe we should lend you a Jack Russell for piece of mind when you visit Corowa Richard, you know snakes love to live along rivers.

motto · #29 10-12-12, 01:14

Sounds like that cocky should have had a burn off at the right time of year. Too late now, total destruction would be the inevitable outcome if that grass got going. Looks like no bushfire preparation there. Reduces the chances of a snake encounter as well.

Yesterday was our last chance to burn off here and we spent a lot of the day raking up and burning tree litter. Fuel reduction's the name of the game.

170 dead in one day in 2009 keeps things fresh in your mind when you live in a fire prone area.

Don't worry about the snakes Richard, we'll fit up with some bowyangs. You'll be right. (Look that up in your Funk and Wagnals).

David

Richard Farrant · #30 10-12-12, 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

Maybe we should lend you a Jack Russell for piece of mind when you visit Corowa Richard, you know snakes love to live along rivers.

Hi Keith,
After the last Corowa we went up to see another forum member near Oberon and while there helped him out with a bit of fencing in a paddock, think he was trying to freak me by keep warning me about the tiger snakes around there.