4th Canadian armoured division August 1944 tank states

[Stevenn]

HI

Does anyone know where (and if) the daily tank states for the 4th Canadian Armoured division in August 1944 were kept in the war diary?

I have war diaries for individual regiments and they are not in those.
I have viewed 4CAB HQ war diary microfilm and they are not there.

The 2CAB war diary mentions brigade tank state every day and the individual regimental returns are found in the radio logs for each day. The radio logs I have seen for 4CAB do not contain this information either.

Thanks
Stevenn

[Tony Viste]

Tank states for the 4 Cdn Armd Div are located on film T-10550, 4th Canadian Armoured Division, Assistant Adjutant and Quartermaster General; Volume 13793.

They consist of an ADREP from Q Rear 4 Cdn Armd Div to Q Rear 2 Cdn Corps. They only give a total division tank strength and are not broken down by regiment in any way.

Also, 18 August through 28 August; and 31 August are missing.

01 Aug - 331
02 Aug - 333
03 Aug - 331
04 Aug - 331
05 Aug - 332
06 Aug - 325
07 Aug - 326
08 Aug - 328
09 Aug - 291
10 Aug - 234
11 Aug - 235
12 Aug - 257
13 Aug - 259
14 Aug - 231
15 Aug - 194
16 Aug - 190
17 Aug - 206
29 Aug - 284
30 Aug - 212

I hope this helps,
Tony Viste

[Robert Bergeron]

Aug 16 : 190 tanks only !

The great Juno Beach Breakout to Caen and the Falaise Gap period .

Canadian blood on Canadian hulls.

Droit au But : The Sherbrooke Fusilier Regiment .

We shall remember them.

[Stevenn]

Thanks Tony

I have ordered copy microfilm from LAC already but it looks like it will not be of much use. It may be possible to work backwards from numbers given but as you say, it is not split by regiment.
Curiously, I have just been through entire war diary for Canadian Grenadier Guards for Aug 1944 and there is not one official tank state report except for a casual mention in text of diary itself. Frustrating...!

[Stevenn]

Guys

These tanks states are doing my head in!
I have been through LAC microfilms until I am crosseyed.... but i can't believe the 4CAB daily tank states did not survive somewhere in 4CAD, 2nd Cdn Corps or 1st Cdn Army records . Every time i get a lead on a document or file in LAC search engine, it goes nowhere!
Can anyone recommend a good, professional, military understanding researcher to look for me?
There are some listed in LAC website but I would rather use someone recommended.
I live in Sydney, Australia so getting a flight myself is (almost) not an option.... but i hear Canada is a good place to visit!

Thanks
Stephen

[maple_leaf_eh]

This is an interesting peek at the conflict between operational security and administrative efficiency. A dozen years of Canada in Afghanistan ingrained secrecy into all readily accessible information; do not disclose anything that the enemy might use to gauge the effectiveness of his weapons. If there was an IED attack, the public statements concentrated on the fatalities only, with scarcely a mention of wounded or vehicle casualties. There is still no official casualty statement from Afghanistan beyond deaths. Researchers or curious historians have only guessed at the ratio of dead to wounded.

Contrast that to WWII with daily traffic, hopefully in code, on personnel and equipment strengths. If (and assuming yes), the Germans knew Allied codes, they would have received daily feedback on where their actions had been more or less successful. The difficulty with operational discretion is it limits how quickly the necessary logistics train can react. After any regiment was in battle, the resupply and replacement system was engaged almost immediately. Lose ten tanks, their share of the available tanks get pushed forward as soon as possible. Someone else loses twenty, the first unit might be shorted temporarily to keep the harder hit unit combat capable. In other words, share the burden.