Tyre Rims Chevrolet MCP

[Lionelgee]

Hello MLU People,

I found an photograph of a 1941-42 Modified Civilian Pattern Chevrolet truck which has a similar opening windscreen as my 1940 truck has.

I also noticed that the truck in the photograph has two things different to mine in relation to the tyres. The first is that it does not have the suicide rims that mine has fitted to it. The second thing is that the rear wheels are single and not dual as my truck has.

What are the wheel rims which have a series of bolts which hold the two halves together called? Would these bolted wheel rims been originally fitted to my truck?

Can you still get these types of wheel rims and what size tyre would they take?

Could the dual rear wheels been a standard civilian stock since 1940 was very early in the war? Or was it a single rim rear arrangement that has since been modified after the war to be upgraded to a dual wheel arrangement?

A number of members have written that they have had tyre fitters refuse to handle the suicide rims when fitting new tyres. So it would be good to know that I might be able to go down the two bolted half wheel rims and still maintain some authenticity as per the Australian War Memorial photograph of a truck which is probably only a year younger than mine.

Kind Regards
Lionel

Details of the photograph are:

ID Number: 024625
Physical description: Black & white
Summary: WESTERN DESERT, EGYPT. 1942-07-22. AUSTRALIAN ARMY CANTEEN SERVICE MOBILE CANTEEN. THESE 3-TON TRUCKS STACKED WITH GOODS PLY UP AND DOWN THE REAR OF THE BATTLE AREA SUPPLYING THE WANTS OF THOSE WHO HAVE MONEY. NOTE THE NAME "GLORIA" ON THE FRONT OF THE TRUCK. THIS IDEA OF INSCRIBING A GIRL'S NAME ON A 3 TON TRUCK IS, IN A WAY, A DOUBTFUL COMPLIMENT TO HER MEMORY, BUT IS A WIDESPREAD PRACTICE AMONG BRITISH TROOPS IN EGYPT.
Copyright: Copyright expired - public domain
Copyright holder: Copyright Expired
Related subject: Canteens; Exercises and manoeuvres; Trucks; Women

Related unit: Army Canteen Service; British Army

Related place: North Africa: Egypt; North Africa: Western Desert


Related conflict: Second World War, 1939-1945

Accessed 12th September 2013 from www.awm.gov.au/collection/024625

[Lionelgee]

Hello MLU Members,

Could someone verify if the rear stop or brake light is from the 1940s or is it a more modern version fitted after military service?

If it is a later replacement what would the original brake light have looked like? A photograph posted up would be great.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Hello MLU People,

I decided to broaden my search of the Australian War Memorial photograph collection by removing the word "Chevrolet" from my first search of "Chevrolet Trucks" limited to Second World War. The new search was just "Trucks & WWII"

The first photograph I opened up shows a row of MCP 1940 Chevrolet Trucks with the same suicide rims that my truck has!

Kind Regards
Lionel

ID number 005119
Object type Black & white
Physical description Black & white
Collection Photograph

Description

1941-01. TRUCK LINE. ALICE SPRINGS CAMP. (NEGATIVE BY R. PEARSE).
Accessed 12th September 2013
Permalink: http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/005119

[motto]

Hi Lionel
The large single tyres on the bolted wheels I believe would certainly have been a military specification. This type of wheel is usually referred to as being a split rim. Blitz wheels were 16 or 20 inch but the Chevs used by the Australian Army as far as I know were 18 inch. If I recall correctly tyres were 10.50 - 18.
The 20 inch dual wheel setup was supplied concurrently. Trucks came with either wheel type as ordered.
Another variation is in the weight of the front axle. The line up of Chevs in the Alice Springs camp photo have the heavy axle which uses barrel roller type bearings. This is indicated by the domed bearing cover held on with six cap screws.
The vast majority of L/L Chevs came with the lighter front axle which used bicycle cup and cone ball type bearings. The bearing cap on these hubs was a pressed steel screw in cup that sat in a recess.
The trucks with the big singles seem to have used a different type hub again.
The big singles also required a different or modified front mudguard. There was quite a variation of widths and cutaways.
18 inch wheels are rare and 18 inch bar tread tyres almost impossible except for maybe 11.00 - 18 which were used on the Gamma Goat.
Lighting wise, the military contract trucks you would think all came with black out lighting but some appear to have the civilian type elongated parking light on top of the headlight which had a milky coloured lens. The tail light in your photo may well be original. The true L/L trucks 42 to 45 all seem to have BO lighting with the standardised main lighting switch and BO front marker lights as fitted to US military vehicles. Some even had the BO driving light. I assume they originally had the matching tail lights.
The foregoing is only based on what I've seen over the years and may not be completely accurate as variations keep popping up.

David

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

Instead of starting a new thread and to avoid hijacking Chris's Lend Lease Chevrolet 1.5 thread I will post some photographs of Australian Army Trucks with one piece top pivoting hinged windscreens.

I am not sure from the angle the attached photograph taken from the Australian War Memorial's Collection - however it looks like a CMP with a one piece windscreen. Comments welcome it could be the two split screens are just both open at the same time?

Kind Regards
Lionel

Here is the AWM's description...
ID number 079821
Object type Black & white
Physical description Black & white
Collection Photograph

Description

TOKO, BOUGAINVILLE, SOLOMON ISLANDS. 1945-03-21. A 3 TON TRUCK OF THE 7TH INFANTRY BRIGADE POSITIONED PRECARIOUSLY AFTER ITS ENGINE STALLED DURING UNLOADING OPERATIONS IN HEAVY SURF.

Accessed 13th September 2013
Permalink: http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/079821

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

I found another Tilt Windscreen this time on a Ford MCP so they must not have been just limited to Chevrolet Trucks.

As per the other photographs accessed from the Australian War Memorial, below are the full details...

Kind Regards
Lionel

ID number P01022.044
Object type Black & white
Physical description Black & white
Collection Photograph

Description

NSW OR QLD, 1942. A FORD 30 CWT TRUCK DRIVING DOWN A TRACK SOMEWHERE BETWEEN WEE WAA AND MURGON. THE 2/4TH ARMOURED REGIMENT IS DRIVING GENERAL GRANT M3 MEDIUM TANKS TO QUEENSLAND FOR USE IN COMBINED OPERATIONS TRAINING WITH UNITED STATES TROOPS, AND THIS TRUCK IS BACKTRACKING TO FIND EQUIPMENT AND OTHER MATERIAL LOST FROM TANK PANNIERS IN THE ROUGH TERRAIN. (DONOR H. JACKSON)

Accessed 13th of September 2013
Permalink: http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/P01022.044

[Lionelgee]

G'day David,

Thank you for the informative reply about the quirks of MCP Chevrolet Trucks.

I found a photograph that might answer my own question about how far the rubber seal extended from the frame of the tilt up windscreens. Mine is nearly non-existent. This Australian War Memorial photograph shows what looks like a closed tilt up windscreen. It looks like there are two hinges roughly in the same place as the other photographs I have found so far.

Photograph Details below

P.S. I found a photograph of a US truck of a type that I am unsure what it is - however it looks to have a modified version of the tilt windscreen except it does not have a internal centre frame with a handle. The top hinges seem to be spaced further apart from the centred of the windscreen as well.


Kind Regards
Lionel


Attached Photo 1 is -
ID number 053414
Photographer Stuckey, Norman Bradford
Object type Black & white
Physical description Black & white
Collection Photograph

Description

YUNGABURRA, QLD. 1943-07-08. ARMY TRUCK OF THE 2ND AUSTRALIAN CORPS COMBINED CAMOUFLAGE TRAINING SCHOOL EQUIPPED WITH GARNISHED NETS (ON TOP OF CABIN). WHEN NECESSARY, THESE NETS ARE THROWN OVER THE VEHICLE. SHOWN: SERGEANT (SGT) KEMP; SGT HALES; SGT FRANCIS; CORPORAL ROBERTS; LANCE CORPORAL HARTILL.

Accessed 13th September 2013
Permalink: http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/053414

Attached Photo 2 is -
ID number 060384
Photographer Halmarick, Colin Thomas
Object type Black & white
Physical description Black & white
Collection Photograph

Description

SOGERI, NEW GUINEA. 1943-11-20. A TIMBER HAULING TRUCK OF THE SCHOOL OF SIGNALS, NEW GUINEA FORCE MOVING ALONG A MUDDY JUNGLE TRACK TO PICK UP A LOAD OF LOGS FOR THE SAWMILL.
Accessed 13th September 2013
Permalink: http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/060384

[motto]

The photo on the right is of a G506 Chevrolet 1-1/2 ton 4x4 commonly known in Australia as a Yankee Joe
These were a standardised US Army vehicle built in substantial numbers and an interesting mix of GMC and Chev components. They were powered by a 235 cubic inch splash feed engine coupled to the common Chev four speed box of the time and a company produced two speed transfer case peculiar to the vehicle.
Very few were used by the Australian forces as this class of truck was nearly all made up of CMPs so not common here. Most that have come to light seem to have been earth borer/pole setters and I don't personally know of one in Australia that has the original distinctive cargo body as in this photo. Note the unusually wide side sill.
There was still 18 months before wars end when the photo was taken and the truck is already looking somewhat dilapidated and doing heavy work. What chance of survival for this one?
Windscreen wise, the Yankee Joe was the same as the GMC CCKW 6x6 hard cab. It used external hinges and had no centre support. Instead they had a slider at each end running on a bolt attached to the door pillar and a wing-nut or knurled nut to clamp them similar to the way a Jeep windscreen works.
The L/L trucks stayed with the civilian type internal concealed hinges and centrally positioned winder right the way through so far as I am aware.
David

[jack neville]

Lionel,

I am not sure of the tilt windscreens on other trucks or the hinge arrangement/manufacture but I do know on the early Fords used by Australia that the 39 Ford truck/pick up windscreen was continued in use on the 40-42 Ford trucks.

The 39 Ford had a dual swing out hinge with a winder on the dash. Ford went to two piece fixed windscreens in 1940 but to continue using tilt windscreen the Australian Army continued using the 39 windscreen but had to make new hinges to adapt to the changed windscreen frame on the cab. And they are a bastard to get lined up.

Those familiar with Chevs may be able to enlighten as to whether any similar change took place with those civvy truck cabs.

[Ganmain Tony]

Been through this exercise before Lionel...wrt tyres and rims...

Davids explanation is great so I wont add anything else to confuse. Just some pictures...

The thread I posted on this truck is called 'Its infectious' and is on the Softskin Forum. You'll also see the hoops I jumped through in regards to the front brakes.

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by jack neville

Lionel,

I am not sure of the tilt windscreens on other trucks or the hinge arrangement/manufacture but I do know on the early Fords used by Australia that the 39 Ford truck/pick up windscreen was continued in use on the 40-42 Ford trucks.

The 39 Ford had a dual swing out hinge with a winder on the dash. Ford went to two piece fixed windscreens in 1940 but to continue using tilt windscreen the Australian Army continued using the 39 windscreen but had to make new hinges to adapt to the changed windscreen frame on the cab. And they are a bastard to get lined up.

Those familiar with Chevs may be able to enlighten as to whether any similar change took place with those civvy truck cabs.

G'day Jack,

Thank you for the post and the information on Ford MCPs with tilt windscreens. Is the truck in the attachment a Ford? It is hard for me to tell without the grille. It looks like it is one of the ones that David described that have rods near the roof pillar. This is a different arrangement to mine. Description from the Australian War Memorial follows...

Kind Regards
Lionel

ID number 052815
Photographer McInnes, Geoffrey
Object type Black & white
Physical description Black & white
Collection Photograph

Description

DARWIN, NT. 1943-06-21. CRAFTSMEN OF 2/70 LIGHT AID DETACHMENT, ATTACHED TO 2/11 ARMY FIELD REGIMENT, GIVING A TRUCK A GENERAL OVERHAUL. THEY ARE:- VX28171 CRAFTSMAN S. WENTWORTH (LEFT); NX79557 SIGNALLER F. BADHAM.
Accessed 13th September 2013
Permalink: http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/052815

[Lionelgee]

Originally Posted by Ganmain Tony

Been through this exercise before Lionel...wrt tyres and rims...

Davids explanation is great so I wont add anything else to confuse. Just some pictures...

The thread I posted on this truck is called 'Its infectious' and is on the Softskin Forum. You'll also see the hoops I jumped through in regards to the front brakes.

G'day Tony,

Thank you for the reply Tony. I did remember the "it's infectious" link thank you. I think I even contributed a mis-direction about the front brakes too accidentally. How is the restoration of this Chevy and your 2wd Ford CMP going? Any updates

Kind Regards
Lionel

[motto]

Lionel,
The vehicle in the attachment on your #11 post is a Ford. I'm not really familiar with them but two things readily identify the marque. One is the three ribs on the door just below the window.
The other is the radiator divided down the middle. The V8 had two water pumps and the radiator had two inlets and two outlets, an inlet and outlet for each side. They are unmistakable.

David

[Chevrolet 41]

Hello Lionel,

Don't worry about hijacking the thread mate. Would be good to have everything on the one heading for the 1. 1/5 L/L Chevs.

Getting back to your rear brake light, I would guesstimate it is original or close to it as far as year of manufacture goes. Mine had smaller and more conical shaped ones which I believe are avail on the reproduction market if you wanted to compare them.

http://www.oldchevytrucks.com/cart/i...g%2FTaillights

These show other types. Seems to be a lot of variants unfort.

Cheers