Perth Regiment (UK – 1943)

[Michael Ockenden]

Can someone pse tell me when the Perth Regiment (11th Brigade, 4th Div?) arrived in the UK in the autumn of 1943?

Comments appreciated.

Mike

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Mike
Can someone pse tell me when the Perth Regiment (11th Brigade, 4th Div?) arrived in the UK in the autumn of 1943?

Comments appreciated.

Mike

Hi Mike;

The Perth Regiment (Motor) arrived in the UK in October 1941.

Cheers

[Michael Ockenden]

Thanks for putting me right about that, Mark.

Mike

[Gordon Yeo]

In the Links section of Maple Leaf Up way down at the bottom is the Re-enactment section and the Perth Regiment has a listing. That goes to their site and lists the Perth's as being in the 11 Brigade 5th Armoured Division and gives more info about them.

[Michael Ockenden]

Thanks for directing me to that link. I must confess that I tend to come straight to the forum.

Some great stuff there about the 19 Set, too. I used to have one of those in my ham shack.

Mike

[Mark W. Tonner]

Hi Mike;

Just a general note regarding the Perth Regiment, when they landed in the UK in Oct 41, they were the Motor Battalion for the Cdn 2nd Armd Bde, who at that time were the second amoured brigade of the Cdn 5th Armd Div. In Jan 43 the Canadian Armoured Corps underwent a complete a reorganization which resulted in the Perths leaving the Cdn 2nd Armd Bde and being converted to a Rifle Battalion establishment and being allocated to the Cdn 11th Inf Bde, the infantry brigade of the Cdn 5th Armd Div. the 'Motor' designation was dropped from their title effective 31 Jan 43.

The Perth Regiment 1939 to 1946:

Serial No. 107 - The Perth Regiment (M.G.), C.A.S.F.
Authorized: GO 135/39 - Effective 1 Sep 39, C.A.S.F. designation dropped: GO 273/40 - Effective 7 Nov 40

Serial No. 107 - The Perth Regiment (M.G.)
Authorized: GO 273/40 - Effective 7 Nov 40, Coverted & Redesignated: GO 88/41 - Effective 11 Feb 41 - Converted & Redesignated: Serial No. 107 - The Perth Regiment (Motor) under GO 88/41 - Effective 11 Feb 41

Serial No. 107 - The Perth Regiment (Motor)
Authorized: GO 88/41 - Effective 11 Feb 41, Allocated to the Canadian Infantry Corps as: Serial No. 107 - 1st Battalion, The Perth Regiment (Motor), C.I.C. under GO 485/42 - Effective 3 Sep 42

Serial No. 107 - 1st Battalion, The Perth Regiment (Motor), C.I.C.
Authorized: GO 485/42 - Effective 3 Sep 42, Converted & Redesignated: GO 486/43 - Effective 31 Jan 43 - Converted & Redesignated: Serial No. 107 - 1st Battalion, The Perth Regiment, C.I.C. under GO 486/43 - Effective 31 Jan 43

Serial No. 107 - 1st Battalion, The Perth Regiment, C.I.C.
Authorized: GO 486/43 - Effective 31 Jan 43, Disbanded: GO 111/46 - Effective 31 Jan 46


Cheers

[Norm Cromie (RIP)]

Mark
I see you using the numeral 55 on your thread intro's
As you know 55 was the numeral used on all RCR vehicles.
were you with the RCR's ?

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Norm Cromie
Mark
I see you using the numeral 55 on your thread intro's
As you know 55 was the numeral used on all RCR vehicles.
were you with the RCR's ?

Hi Norm;

Yes I was, I'm Retired from the Regiment.

Cheers

[Norm Cromie (RIP)]

Mark: Can you possibly explain to me why when the 48th Highlanders was the truly superior regiment in the first brigade that we were assigned 57 instead of 55? : :

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Norm Cromie
Mark: Can you possibly explain to me why when the 48th Highlanders was the truly superior regiment in the first brigade that we were assigned 57 instead of 55? : :

Norm......is this a trick question or what .....

1. - The Royal Canadian Regiment was the senior Permanent Active Militia infantry regiment at the time of the C.A.S.F. mobilization

2. - The 48th Highlanders were a Non-Permanent Active Militia infantry regiment at the time of the C.A.S.F. mobilization

and

3. - The 'Plough Jockeys' (Hasty P's), even though they were also an N.P.A.M. infantry regiment at the time of the C.A.S.F. mobilization, they are senior to the 48th in the Order of Precedence of Canadian Infantry Regiments (Hasty P's: 16 Jan 1863 - 48th: 16 Oct 1891)

4. - Hence:

'55' - The Royal Canadian Regiment
'56' - The Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment
'57' - 48th Highlanders of Canada

5. - Having been posted to Toronto on Regular Support Staff, to one of the Reserve Infantry Regiments there and having seen the 48th up close and personel, I'd have to say that the Arm of Service serial '57' was quite appropriate for the 48th, kind of like a 'Heinz 57' variety mix.....

Norm;

All kidding aside, when it came to the allotment of Arm of Service serials, ie: Canadian 1st Infantry Brigade, the numbers '55', '56' and '57' were assigned according to the placement in the Order of Precedence of Canadian Infantry Regiments, that the three infantry battalions that were to make up the brigade, held at that time.

The same can be said for all the other infantry brigades of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Infantry Divisions and of the 4th and 5th Armoured Divisions (including the 12th Inf Bde).

Cheers

[Michael Ockenden]

I won't get drawn into the matter of precedence! But is there a list of all these numbers? It would be helpful when trying to identify photographs.

Mike

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Mike
I won't get drawn into the matter of precedence! But is there a list of all these numbers? It would be helpful when trying to identify photographs.

Mike

Hi Mike;

Yes there is, but it varies throughout 1939-1945 (reorganizations and changes in establishment). In regards to the 'numbers' ie: '55', '56' and '57', these were used by the Canadian 1st, 4th and 7th Infantry Brigades of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Infantry Divs respectively. The 'numbers' themselves (Arm of Service Markings) along with the formation sign of the parent formation were used to identify the 'user unit' of a vehicle, example:

a vehicle with the Arm of Service marking '57' on a red background, along with formation sign of the Cdn 1st Infantry Division, identified the vehicle as belonging to the 48th Highlanders of Canada, or if the formation sign were that of the Cdn 2nd Infantry Division, then it would identify the vehicle as belonging to The Essex Scottish Regiment.

I'll post more on this later, I have to step out for a bit.

Cheers

[Norm Cromie (RIP)]

Mark

I knew damn well that you would work the word Heinz into our vehicle number. But may I remind you sir as the Glamour boys we were the only unit in the Canadian army to wear blue putties. An honour and distinction that will go down in the annuls of Military history.

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

Hi Norm.Didn't the Newfoundland Regiment wear blue putties in WW 1 and go by the same nickname??

[Norm Cromie (RIP)]

Gary
Thanks for the info. Can you tell me what Newfy regiment wore the blue putties or was it all the Newfoundland soldiers of WW1?

[Garry Shipton (RIP)]

Hi again Norm in sunny California.
All I know is that they couldn't afford green putees,so somehow they obtained blue ones from the Navy,and became the Blue Putees.By the way,they weren't a highland regiment,This was related to me by a Mr Ches Baker from the ROCK.They're the regiment who lost most of their men in the fatal charge at Beaumont Hamel.Only 60 of the original regiment answered roll-call afterwards,and today,on each July 1st,they don't celebrate Canada Day but that fateful day of the charge.Look up Beaumont Hamel for their full story
Refgards

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Norm Cromie
Mark

I knew damn well that you would work the word Heinz into our vehicle number. But may I remind you sir as the Glamour boys we were the only unit in the Canadian army to wear blue putties. An honour and distinction that will go down in the annuls of Military history.

Hi Norm;

I meant to point this out yesterday, but Garry beat me to it. Since 1949, there are now two Canadian Infantry Regiments that have the distinction of having worn blue putties, that I know of:

- The Royal Newfoundland Regiment in the Great War (1st Newfoundland Regiment May 1915 to Feb 1918, who were redesignated The Royal Newfoundland Regiment in Feb 1918)

and the

- 48th Highlanders of Canada in the Second World War

Cheers