Rectangle Hatch

Joel Culliford · #1 08-05-11, 20:33

Hello

Ok, so the CMP that is being rebuilt by Port High students, does not have a hatch. It was removed and just a large rectangle piece of sheet metal was welded on top (larger then the actual hole. The goal is to replace it, which right now looks like the students would have to build it in the metal shop.

I am starting this thread in the hopes to gather as much info on the hatch as possible. I need dimensions, thighness, bolt type, how it works...pretty much everything.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

Phil Waterman · #2 08-05-11, 20:51

Hi Joel

The pictures you found on http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.com/Posting.html are for the rear sliding hatch on a HUP which is about 4'x4' and slides on rails.

What I think you want is this versions, the pictures attached are some that Bob Carriere sent me. To post them I've had to drop the resolution if you think these are what you are looking for let me know and I can post them to my web site at hi resolution so you can see the detail better. I'll keep looking for more detail shots.

Cheers Phil

Joel Culliford · #3 08-05-11, 21:05

Yes, you are right. Gee I thought I had found some info, oh well back to the drawing board.

Marc Montgomery · #4 09-05-11, 02:14

For the rectangular hatch.

There is a wood spacer that goes between the outiside roof and the exterior angle iron hatch frame

There is an inside steel rectangle (it has a slight convex shape to the sides to match the curvature of the roof)

There were also 'cushions' around the perimeter of the inside of the hatch.. Usually these were wood frames (4 pieces) with 45 degree angles where they meet, they were covered with a about 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick horsehair stuffing with a canvas covering. (some models were just heavy rubber) The stuffing covered the face and top and the canvas wrapped aound the top and a littlle on the bottom and was tacked into the wood, which was held on to the angle iron frame with screws through the anlge iron from the outside.

The wood bits are complicated.

The inside perimeter bits are undercut to create a lip so they can sit on the liip of the hatch frame angle iron. The hatch lid itself closes onto the tops of the cushions. The wood substrate has to be measured to allow for the thickness of two layers of canvas where the corners mate.

The spacer between cab roof and exterior hatch are even more complicated. There are four pieces that dovetail (overlap) at the corners. To compensate sliightly for the slope
of the roof, the front one is thicker than the back one and the bottom is cut to match the roof slope...eg the forward side of the front piece is about about 3/4 in high, the back edge of the front piece is about 1/2 in.. (these are not exact measurements..its from memory and given as an example)

The rear piece is (from memory) not undercut as much (perhaps not at all- this is from memory) as the rear portion of the cab roof is not sloped much at that point.

the side pieces are complicated (but identical )as the bottoms which mate to the cab roof are shaped to match the slope of the roof and so have a concave curve to them on the underside.

from memory there was wide window tape between the cab roof and the inside metal rectangle, and between the cab roof and wood spacers outside and the wood spacers and the exterior frame. This thick and wide window tape-gasket- is very difficult to find now, so a substitute would likely be needed.

IMPORTANT": It is much much easier to find an original hatch than to try to make one. You have to make the locking mechanism and housing, machine the double latch, the Hatch lid is re-inforced. There are take-offs around from wrecks...in any case you will need a model to use as a template to get the details correct, or just restore the orig.

The hatch lid grab handle to guide it open and pull it closed, was a couple of thickness of canvas strapping sewn with a footman loop slipped through each end which were than bolted into the hatch lid.

The knob on the roof is a kind of fibre thing, ( a wood repop would be ok) it fits into a U shaped spring steel clip when open. the clip holds it tight enough to keep it from wobbling around or bouncing when open

I believe the exterior grab handle shown in the earlier photos is not an original..which was not as high. See photos of my truck.. look very closely - the hatch is open... the grab handle is original and just a bit higher than the hatch. you can see the knob sitting in its U shaped holder, and the canvas tops of the cushions are exposed

http://www.mapleleafup.net/vehicles/...in/c60l_1.html

with the various gaskets and lid closing on the cushions tightly and covering the small amount exposed, the rectangular hatch is watertight.

On the roof a couple of inches in front of the hatch there was a grab handle bolted to the roof, again , there should be originals available from wrecks

Bob McNeill · #5 09-05-11, 12:00

Here are a couple of pics on the easy way a hatch was fitted in Oz, chev, the grab handle bolted to the outside bolts on the front of the hatch. The lower frame went inside. The roof panel had been pressed so as to be level in that area, the seal I made useing 2" x 1/2" a strip 1/8 x 3/8" and on the outside 1" x 1/8".

Bob McNeill · #6 09-05-11, 12:16

Seniors moment, the pic shows 3/8" on the outside.

Marc Montgomery · #7 09-05-11, 13:02

there is a small wood shop in Niagara falls that can make the bits..Owner is Manfred.-excellent with wood.....used to be located near Marineland, in a very small commercial mall and maybe still is. Cant think of the name unfortunately..but was jus down the road from Niagara Awnings

I would think that the majority of rectangular hatches were the wood/canvas type vs the hard rubber type, used mostly on earlier models.

Do not compress the roof to fit the frame.

The inside cab frame is curved to fit, but the outside angle iron frame is not and will distort the roof and looks most unprofessional.

Make the wood spacers and do them properly, with the gaskets.. Perhaps ask at antique car restorers for the window sealing tape.. the type used was very wide, much wider than typical window sealing tape. You may have to substitute, ..possibly the thin cork gasket material in bulk, cut to fit.

i may have a hatch I could sell, Id have to check, but ask around as there are many collectors in southern ontario who could probably help.

I will also check back in my files to see if I kept the plans for reproduction of the wood bits...but this will take a while.

Joel Culliford · #8 10-05-11, 19:30

That would be cool Marc if you had one for sale. Let me know. That goes for anyone who might have one for sale, please let me know.

Thanks
Joel

Bob Carriere · #9 11-05-11, 21:51

Check with Dan McCaw from Coe Hill Ontario..... he had a few at one point....

...they are not easy nor cheap when you find them..... in some cases it may be cheaper to purchase the whole rusted truck than to buy just the hatch...

Bob

Joel Culliford · #10 14-05-11, 00:38

A local gentleman who was going to restore a CMP has decided not to and is going to give it to the CMHS. With great luck it is the same make, year and body type. It will be dropped off at Port High soon for the students to use as a parts truck.

BUT...it does not have a top hatch either.

Joel

Bob Carriere · #11 14-05-11, 03:16

Can't restore a CMP truck with out spare parts.....

....grab it quick....... it may not have a hatch..... but it has bargaining power.....now you can trade parts for what you may need.....

Worst come to worst you can have a good running CMP for the Summer...something to show around..... your visibility may attact other CMP owners who needs spare parts from your parts truck..... or may notice that you need a hatch to finish your project..... when you are showing off your truck.... hang a sign..... "Hatch Wanted"......

...and shows us some pictures.....

Bob C.

Marc Montgomery · #12 14-05-11, 18:49

I checked and do in fact have a complete hatch in good shape. Interior rectangular frame, exterior frame and lid.

I MAY also have the remains of the wooden spacer that can help in recreating them..

contact me offlist viz email....I dont check the PM too often
use
convoymagazine AT yahoo dot com

Marc Montgomery · #13 15-05-11, 23:15

wow, what luck, the wood pieces for the interior cushions are still there and in good shape-they are good enough to be re-used themselves, and certainly good for repro, and I found the four pieces for the wood spacer on top which are in good shape to use as models to repro plus the exterior bars are there and the little sheet metal corner tabs!

lid and frames interior and exterior are straight- pix to come via email.