MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > GENERAL WW2 TOPICS > WW2 Military History & Equipment

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 27-03-06, 16:04
Dave Block Dave Block is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mississauga, On.
Posts: 108
Default Weasel flamethrower?

I came across an interesting photo in David Gordon's book 'Weapons of the WWII Tommy' on the week-end. It shows what appears to be the No.2 Mk.2C Transportable Flamethrower mounted on the M29C Weasel. The author is somewhat vague in the text: "Some (Weasels) were also equipped with flame throwers but it is unknown if any of those so modified were used in action".
There are no markings/WD nos. on the vehicle to indicate nationality and the tracks look very odd (they remind me of Universal Carrier tracks). The whole set-up is even more exposed than the Wasp and I shouldn't imagine it would be very popular with the crews.
Can anyone shed some light on this beastie, i.e. who modified it and, was it ever used?

TIA, Dave
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 27-03-06, 22:15
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hoofddorp, The Netherlands
Posts: 2,190
Default

Dave,

Would it be possible for you to scan the picture? I would be very interested in taking a look.

I do know that some conversions were carried out by the 79th Armored division for mine-clearing purposes, but I haven't heard from any flame-throwing Weasels uptil now.

I believe the only tracks used on Weasels in WW2 were the 15 inch early and the 20 inch late (and M29C) tracks. Postwar there have been some firms producing other type of tracks to replace worn original tracks or to improve traction.

regards,

Alex van de Wetering, the Netherlands
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 27-03-06, 22:55
Dave Block Dave Block is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mississauga, On.
Posts: 108
Default Sadly, no scanner (yet)

Perhaps another member familiar with the above-mentionned book could do me that favour (p.455, bottom). I made note of the tracks because they look so different from the wide flotation ones normally seen on this vehicle. This leads me to believe that it was a test-bed vehicle rather than one in service (plus the lack of WD nos.). The author gives an extensive reference list but doesn't indicate his source for this photo. I've certainly not seen it before in any of the mainstream 'Allied' books.

Cheers, Dave
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 28-03-06, 01:31
horsa's Avatar
horsa horsa is offline
David Gordon
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lorena, Texas, USA
Posts: 618
Default Weasel Variations

The photo you mention has text associated with it as "...an example of the U.S. M29C Weasel fitted with a flame thrower..." It was meant to be just that, an example of an allied WWII vehicle modified for use with a flame thrower. Not specifically to be an example of a standard British vehicle used during the war with a WD number painted on the side. The flame thrower versions of the Sherman tank photos on the same page are also comperable examples.

Photo was unlabeled and part of a small batch of other WWII vehicle related photos that I acquired several years ago.

Tracks appear to be the same type we have on our M29C. We don't have the flotation tanks but the grouser blades and bands seem to be identical.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 28-03-06, 01:35
horsa's Avatar
horsa horsa is offline
David Gordon
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lorena, Texas, USA
Posts: 618
Default Weasel Photo



Not sure why the attachment wouldn't work on the last message. Hopefully this will come through.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 28-03-06, 01:56
alleramilitaria's Avatar
alleramilitaria alleramilitaria is offline
Dave Demorrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: texas USA
Posts: 1,133
Default

kool, i think im gona build one
__________________
44 GPW, 43 MB, 42 trailer, 43 cckw
44 MORRIS C8, M-3A1 SCOUT CAR
41 U/C, 42 U/C x 2, 44 U/C
42 6LB GUN
and the list keeps growing, and growing.... i need help LOL
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 28-03-06, 02:04
horsa's Avatar
horsa horsa is offline
David Gordon
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lorena, Texas, USA
Posts: 618
Default Mine Clearing Weasel

Been looking but no joy so far. Somewhere I have a scaned photo of a Weasel with a mine clearning device in the front. Sort'a like a flail tank. Except for the glass windshied and the nervous looking driver just behind it. Pretty sure it is one in British service (trials).

Not likely that a Weasel would survive finding many mines with the device. About as reliable as the jeep mine clearing device shown in the mine chapter of the same book the flame throwers are in.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 28-03-06, 02:10
alleramilitaria's Avatar
alleramilitaria alleramilitaria is offline
Dave Demorrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: texas USA
Posts: 1,133
Default

kinda like the soviet early war mine clearance boots? good for at least finding 1 mine.

dave had a blowout on the trailer on the way home with the UC everything was kool
__________________
44 GPW, 43 MB, 42 trailer, 43 cckw
44 MORRIS C8, M-3A1 SCOUT CAR
41 U/C, 42 U/C x 2, 44 U/C
42 6LB GUN
and the list keeps growing, and growing.... i need help LOL
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 28-03-06, 02:18
Dave Block Dave Block is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mississauga, On.
Posts: 108
Default WOW!

Thanks, I wasn't expecting the author to reply. I already had 'Equipment of the WWII Tommy' and picked up 'Weapons' at a militaria show last week-end. I thoroughly enjoyed both of them and will get 'Uniforms' at another show coming up in May.
I'm primarily a modeller and they provide great reference for the extra bits and bobs that make a kit stand out. The weasel flame thrower really intrigued me, I just wish I knew more about who built it. Keep up the great work!

Cheers, Dave
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 28-03-06, 13:12
Stewart Loy Stewart Loy is offline
T-16, C15A
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Out in the woods near Woodstock, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 865
Default Re: Mine Clearing Weasel

Quote:
Originally posted by horsa
Been looking but no joy so far. Somewhere I have a scaned photo of a Weasel with a mine clearning device in the front. Sort'a like a flail tank.
David,

The picture of that mine clearing "Rodent" is in an older English booklet about Hobarts Funnies. The fellow who had this book remembered that he had lent it to me, and took it back. I will see if I can find it again for you.

By the way, they still use a contraption like that, still made in the UK by Pearson.


Stewart
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 28-03-06, 16:53
horsa's Avatar
horsa horsa is offline
David Gordon
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lorena, Texas, USA
Posts: 618
Default

Think the Germans used the same "pattern" of mine clearance boots as the Russians were using. Very effective and affordable but can only be used one.

Read about the British north of Caen using sheep also. Course they tied a rope onto them. Had orders not to kill and eat the local's domestic stock. But they could eat animals that had been killed from shelling, mines, enemy fire, etc. You'd think the people in charge would be aware that soldiers will find a loop hole for everything

Dave B - Just another collector/researcher like yourself and most of the people on the list. Glad you liked the books.

Dave D - Bummer on the blowout. Good thing you didn't loose the carrier. We never did get that picture for the MLU with our vehicles and Derek with his CMP.

Hey Stewart, what groups are using the mine clearing device now? Jeep or Weasel version?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 28-03-06, 16:56
horsa's Avatar
horsa horsa is offline
David Gordon
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lorena, Texas, USA
Posts: 618
Default Forgot...

Forgot to mention....

The rope on the sheep was to drag their body back to the BBQ pit after having been herded into the known mine field.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 28-03-06, 20:40
Mark W. Tonner's Avatar
Mark W. Tonner Mark W. Tonner is offline
Senior Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: London, Ontario, Canada.
Posts: 3,025
Post Re: Mine Clearing Weasel

Quote:
Originally posted by horsa
Been looking but no joy so far. Somewhere I have a scaned photo of a Weasel with a mine clearning device in the front. Sort'a like a flail tank. Except for the glass windshied and the nervous looking driver just behind it. Pretty sure it is one in British service (trials)

The trials were carried out by "F" Wing located at Gheel, Belgium prior to the Rhine crossing in 1945, as 79th Armd Div tested a series of anti-mine devices to combat the German anti-personnel Schu mine. The photos below are two such devices developed by "F" Wing, neither of which entered service.

Top photo: the Rodent device attached to an M29 Weasel
Bottom photo: the Suggy device attached to an M29 Weasel.

Cheers
Attached Thumbnails
rodent-suggy.jpg  
__________________
Mark
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 28-03-06, 20:47
horsa's Avatar
horsa horsa is offline
David Gordon
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lorena, Texas, USA
Posts: 618
Default Still Looking

Interesting shots. I'm still looking for the one I had which is different from your two shown above. I know I posted it to my father who owns the Weasel I mentioned so I'll see if he still has it and can send it back.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 28-03-06, 20:57
Mark W. Tonner's Avatar
Mark W. Tonner Mark W. Tonner is offline
Senior Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: London, Ontario, Canada.
Posts: 3,025
Default Re: Still Looking

Quote:
Originally posted by horsa
Interesting shots. I'm still looking for the one I had which is different from your two shown above. I know I posted it to my father who owns the Weasel I mentioned so I'll see if he still has it and can send it back.
Hi David;

There were three that "F" Wing developed, but I have nothing on the third which is probably the one you have a shot of.

Cheers
__________________
Mark
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 29-03-06, 13:22
Stewart Loy Stewart Loy is offline
T-16, C15A
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Out in the woods near Woodstock, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 865
Default Mine Clearance

Quote:
Originally posted by horsa
Hey Stewart, what groups are using the mine clearing device now? Jeep or Weasel version?
David,

Just about every armoured vehicle imaginable has been fitted with some sort of mine clearance gizzmo. These are usually interchangeable, the mine rollers are smallish wheels that are pushed in front of the vehicle to 'proof' a previously cleared road surface.

Surface mine plows scrape the top few inches of earth to toss up lightly entrenched small devices in the path of the mine clearance vehicle. A wedge shape forces the nasty devices to the sides where they can be dealt with by subsequent troops.

Many of the newer tools include some sort of magnetic signature duplicator to activate more sophisticated devices - well in front of the vehicle itself, where the crew is protected from the blast and fragmentation effects.

I could find internet pictures of Bradleys and M113s with these outfits, but no Stryker vehicles - too new I suspect.


Stewart
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 29-03-06, 13:33
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hoofddorp, The Netherlands
Posts: 2,190
Default

Great shots Guys! I haven't seen the flamethrower before.

Last night I had a look in my Weasel information to see which strange conversions I could find. Besides the Rodent I was only able to find some shots of a M29 Weasel in Snow-camouflage on trials at the beach (british trials that is). In one of the shots you can see a beam hanging from the rear. Would this be that third mine-trial vehicle?

Alex
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 29-03-06, 15:53
sapper740's Avatar
sapper740 sapper740 is offline
Derek Heuring
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Corinth, Texas
Posts: 2,019
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by horsa


Dave D - Bummer on the blowout. Good thing you didn't loose the carrier. We never did get that picture for the MLU with our vehicles and Derek with his CMP.


Glad to hear no serious consequence from your blow out Dave D. Better a trailer tire than one of your truck's tires. That's always one of my concerns...since most of the reenactments are south of the Metroplex I'm always driving through the belly of the beast, sometimes during rush hour! Can you imagine getting a blow out on Stemmons at 1700hr on a Friday! It's enough to turn my hair grey...I mean greyer!
Dave G., there will be lots of opportunities to get a shot of the three Texas MLU'ers and their vehicles for a future post. What we might want to do at the next show is set up our Circular tents side-by-each and do a Commonwealth encampment.
Both Daves...either of you going to Camp Mabry? I'm considering going if there will be enough Commonwealth types to fight as a unit. I've been attached to American units before, but I stick out like a sore thumb. My understanding of Camp Mabry is that they are sticklers for authenticity and I'm not interested in being relegated as a REMF.



CHIMO!
__________________
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 29-03-06, 17:04
alleramilitaria's Avatar
alleramilitaria alleramilitaria is offline
Dave Demorrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: texas USA
Posts: 1,133
Default

hey sapper CALL ME!
__________________
44 GPW, 43 MB, 42 trailer, 43 cckw
44 MORRIS C8, M-3A1 SCOUT CAR
41 U/C, 42 U/C x 2, 44 U/C
42 6LB GUN
and the list keeps growing, and growing.... i need help LOL
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 29-03-06, 17:55
horsa's Avatar
horsa horsa is offline
David Gordon
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Lorena, Texas, USA
Posts: 618
Default Brent Mullins Place

Since the thread has melded into several things now...

Following are a few shots from Brent Mullins (Jeep Parts) open house that Derek, Dave D and I attended over the weekend.

This one is my '41 Airborne Jeep after ratting around on the trails that Brent made. Had to use 4x4 Low to get through certain places which was fun.



Weasel by our Bell Tent.



And the faithful CMP crossing the Bailey Bridge



Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 29-03-06, 20:41
sapper740's Avatar
sapper740 sapper740 is offline
Derek Heuring
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Corinth, Texas
Posts: 2,019
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by alleramilitaria
hey sapper CALL ME!

Call you what?



Just joking, I'll give you a call tonight.
__________________
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 29-03-06, 20:56
alleramilitaria's Avatar
alleramilitaria alleramilitaria is offline
Dave Demorrow
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: texas USA
Posts: 1,133
Default

we need to talk about your posible reimportation back to the great white north later this year. i need to know what papers i need from the state dept to make sure you can be exported (ancent item).

boof head


dave

PS i promise not to tell any of your friends that you were a german this last weekend at the mullins battle.
__________________
44 GPW, 43 MB, 42 trailer, 43 cckw
44 MORRIS C8, M-3A1 SCOUT CAR
41 U/C, 42 U/C x 2, 44 U/C
42 6LB GUN
and the list keeps growing, and growing.... i need help LOL
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-08-06, 00:12
Dave Block Dave Block is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Mississauga, On.
Posts: 108
Default Weasel flamethrower follow up

to my post back in March. I am in the process of reading John Forfar's book 'From Omaha to the Scheldt, The Story of 47 Royal Marine Commando'. In the chapter on the Walcheren assault he writes:

"LCT 18 carrying the CO was leading in. Close to the southern edge of the gap it lowered its ramp but as it did so it received a direct hit. The shell passed through the driving compartment of one of the LVTs killing the driver and wireless operator, struck a weasel carring the new flame-throwing equipment and then passed through the 1/4-inch armour on the far side of the LVT. The weasel 'brewed up' and set fire to another weasel."

It's unclear if the second weasel was set up as a flamethrower but it looks safe to say that at least one was intended to go in to combat. He also states that the weasels were driven by 47 RM Cdo drivers rather than 80th Assault Squadron drivers (who handled the buffaloes). Just thought I'd share,

Cheers, Dave
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 18-03-08, 00:05
sapper740's Avatar
sapper740 sapper740 is offline
Derek Heuring
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Corinth, Texas
Posts: 2,019
Default More mine clearing Weasels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark W. Tonner View Post
The trials were carried out by "F" Wing located at Gheel, Belgium prior to the Rhine crossing in 1945, as 79th Armd Div tested a series of anti-mine devices to combat the German anti-personnel Schu mine. The photos below are two such devices developed by "F" Wing, neither of which entered service.

Top photo: the Rodent device attached to an M29 Weasel
Bottom photo: the Suggy device attached to an M29 Weasel.

Cheers
I have another shot of a Weasel with the Rodent (also called centipede apparently) mine clearing device. 2nd pic shows a previously unposted mine plough on a Weasel. No info as to their location. Derek.
Attached Thumbnails
Weasel with Centipede.jpg   Weasel with light mine clearing plough.jpg  
__________________
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016