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  #361  
Old 06-10-19, 23:51
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

Hi all,

Most of my time these last couple of weeks has been in tidying up odd jobs like rebuilding the carburettor and water pump. Both are ready to fit now but I will need to give the water pump a coat of the correct grey paint. I ran out so I’ve used some other grey paint in the meantime. There are some differences between the water pumps for the scout car and the M8 as you scout car guys can probably see.

I have also made a start on the gearbox rebuild. I had been putting off stripping it until I knew parts were on the way, but they should be here in a few weeks time. The gearbox seemed to come apart reasonably easily but as soon as I started stripping it I noticed that there were a couple of very small needle rollers in the bottom of the case. I figured one of the shafts was going to have some problems but it appears now that I have everything out, these needle rollers are not from this gearbox. Phew!

The countershaft assembly looks like it will clean up nicely. There is a little bit of pitting on the gears here and there, but overall, not bad. I will replace the bearings at either end.

The mainshaft has some problems. As you can see, one of the synchro rings is broken and there is a fair bit of wear on both sets of rings. The synchro face area on third gear is also badly worn so the gear needs replacing. As I say, I have new parts coming to so while I’m waiting on those, I’ll be cleaning up the housing and making up some gaskets ready for re-assembly. I'll also fit new mainshaft bearings.

I finished off the bleeder block for the hydraulics in the engine bay. Let’s see if it leaks when I get the fluid in there!

That is all….
Attached Thumbnails
20191006_125957.jpg   20190926_121807.jpg   20190926_124952.jpg   20191006_130149.jpg   20191001_121041.jpg  

__________________
Cheers,

Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #362  
Old 20-10-19, 08:15
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

I just realised I neglected to post these few photos last time.
Attached Thumbnails
20191007_090151.jpg   20191007_090200.jpg   20191007_090232.jpg   20191007_090329.jpg   20191005_121339.jpg  

__________________
Cheers,

Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #363  
Old 20-10-19, 08:49
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

Hi all,

I don’t have a lot to report this week as I’m still waiting on gearbox parts, so progress on that has ground to a halt. I’ve attached a few more pictures of the components now that I have everything stripped. You can see the damage on third gear and to the synchro hub for 1st and 2nd gears.

As Willy pointed out to me, cleaning out the oil galleries in the front of the gearbox housing are very important. This is the feed for the front bearings from the oil pump. My housing had a broken plug in the front and at first glance it looked like a Welch plug to me, but it is a NT 1/8” brass plug which I had to remove with an extractor. New bearings and the replacement third gear and synchro rings should hopefully not be far away.

I managed to get hold of a set of the elusive engine bay panels. Many thanks to R for coming up with them. I'm told these are quite important for the cooling on these engines. I’ve cleaned a couple of the panels up already and painted them. The metalwork on the two bigger panels is quite thin in places so I didn’t blast them and instead have been removing the paint using paint stripping discs and a wire wheel. I’ll do some patching of the holes and then get them painted. These panels are a great score.

That's it for this week.
Attached Thumbnails
20191008_171938.jpg   20191008_171945.jpg   20191008_180358.jpg   20191008_180550.jpg   20191017_170941.jpg  

__________________
Cheers,

Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #364  
Old 20-10-19, 08:50
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

More photos.
Attached Thumbnails
20191017_171019.jpg   20191020_162432.jpg   20191020_162439.jpg   20191020_162446.jpg   20191020_162729.jpg  

__________________
Cheers,

Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #365  
Old 08-11-19, 08:55
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

Hi all,

Not a lot to report this week as I’ve been busy getting the rebuilt Hercules engine back into the scout car, which has taken up a bit of my time. It is looking good though.

As far as the M8 goes, here are a few photos of the lower engine panels temporarily fitted into place so you can see how they are arranged. I think I will leave the small panel under the fuel tank in there prior to the fitting of the engine. It is not the easiest of things to fit into place. The other panels can go in once the engine is fitted and everything is looking good.

With the help of a friend, we’ve started assembling the engine for the M8. The machining has been done on the head and bores have been taken out to 0.060” oversize. Don’t you just love cleaning all the cosmoline off those NOS parts! I’ve fitted the plumbing to the new oil pump so that it is ready to fit.

I was going to remove the crankshaft pulley wheel from one of the old crankshafts I had and reuse that, but it is a little rough and the locking nut is quite badly rusted. I figure it will take some time to remove that so I will search out a NOS pulley wheel instead. If anyone has a spare one, I’d be interested.

For the information of the Scout Car engine rebuilders, I’ve attached a photo showing the difference in diameters of the M8/M20 pulley wheel and the Scout Car pulley wheel; 6 ½” on the M8/M20 versus 7” for the Scout Car.

The new ring gear for the flywheel has arrived, as has the third gear and synchro hub for the gearbox. I’m just waiting on the synchro rings now to be able to reassemble the gearbox.

The other protectoscope box I was looking for has also arrived.

Does anyone have any of these adjuster screws for the timing covers for the JXD engines?

That is all for this week.
Attached Thumbnails
20191107_181905.jpg   20191029_113625.jpg   20191029_113650.jpg   20191029_113737.jpg   20191029_113753.jpg  

__________________
Cheers,

Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #366  
Old 08-11-19, 08:56
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

More photos.
Attached Thumbnails
20191101_100319.jpg   20191103_114240.jpg   20191107_180347.jpg   20191106_141309.jpg   20191105_201249.jpg  

__________________
Cheers,

Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #367  
Old 04-12-19, 02:15
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

Hi all

Not a lot to report this time around as I am still fitting all the bits and pieces to the Scout Car engine, which is chewing up a lot of my time and money.

I have managed to paint and fit the new fuel tank into the M8. It has the correct fuel sender (thanks Kenet) and gas gauge so they should work correctly. I’ve made up all the fuel lines now and it is now plumbed and bolted in and ready to fill with gas. I bolted it to the cross member in the hull.

I also finished tidying up the second protectoscope box that I got and that is now fitted.

The new pulley wheel arrived as did the starter motor adaptor(thanks Brent and Rod). I am on the lookout though for the cast outlet for the water pump and the upper pipe to the thermostat housing, as per the attached photo. The water pump outlet is different to the one on the Scout Car.

Has anyone got any of these parts spare?

I have started rebuilding the starter motor. The stamp on the armature shows 2006 which is interesting. The armature and fields appear fine but one of the brushes is broken. From what I can see in the parts manual, these brushes are used on the M29C Weasel. Does anyone have a source for these brushes?

That’s it for this week.
Attached Thumbnails
20191202_140309.jpg   20191202_140319.jpg   20191111_165606.jpg   20191201_183935.jpg   20191201_182020.jpg  

__________________
Cheers,

Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #368  
Old 04-12-19, 02:16
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

More photos.
Attached Thumbnails
20191203_104211.jpg   20191203_104636.jpg   20191203_104948.jpg   20191204_105513.jpg   M8 water pump pipe.JPG  

__________________
Cheers,

Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #369  
Old 25-12-19, 09:23
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

Hi all,

Progress on the M8 the past couple of weeks is still a little slow with most of my time going into working on the Scout Car, so I’ve just been tinkering away on the M8 when I can.

We got the M8 crankshaft assembled into the block last week. The journals on this crank were at 0.060” so near its limits for wear but it looked to be in nice shape. All appeared good until we measured the end-float which was over 0.011”.

After some searching for the problem we identified the problem as being the crankshaft itself. The gap between the rear main bearing shell thrust washer face and the crankshaft journal was too great. It looks like that journal where it meets the thrust washer has been ground at some point, possibly in the process of its last refurbishment?

Why that would be is a mystery but we were wondering why the rear main bearing shell had punch marks around the circumference of the thrust washer face of the shell and this would explain why. Whoever did the last work on it was trying to take up the excessive clearance by putting the punch marks in the shell and dimpling the thrust washer surface.

After some discussion with the engine reconditioners I decided to go with the option of resurfacing the thrust washer face of the bearing shells. This has the effect of building up the surface and taking up the excessive clearance. Apart from the end-float the crankshaft is in very good condition and I felt that it was a shame not to use it especially when we had gone so far with it. Now that the crankshaft is back in the block with the resurfaced shell, the end float measures at an acceptable 0.003-0.004”.

I do have a spare crankshaft which is at standard size along with some 0.020” shells but I will save that combination for a future rebuild on either the scout car or the M8.

I have a number of other parts on the way including the water pump parts I needed (thanks Brian). I am in the process now of gathering up all the loose parts and taking them to the workshop where I will assemble all the bits and pieces onto the engine prior to lifting it into the hull. The gearbox synchro rings are due here anytime so I’ll be able to reassemble the gearbox and get that fitted to the engine block before the assembly goes into the hull.

I had the generator that I rebuilt tested at the local auto electricians and it tested fine. I can’t say the same for the voltage regulator. I bought that believing it would work but it is a no-go. Fortunately I have another which looks like it has never been used so I will test that one out. Despite it appearing to be NOS, I had to solder a wire back in place. It had broken away as one of the coil mounts was loose. I still need to find another pulley wheel for the generator, or else repair the one I have.

I am making up an ignition lead harness. I had the tubing but it came without cabling in it. Complete NOS ignition lead sets are available but I figured I might as well use what I had and the leads don’t take long to make up.

I have the later thermostat housing and pipe outlet. I tested the NOS thermostat I had in the thermostat housing and I see the fit isn’t right. This thermostat is a French one – part number G136 73 47630. The length of the thermostat means that it seems to be pushed hard against the inner surface of the housing so I don’t see how it could work. The 3” diameter at its widest point also makes it a little big for the water pipe outlet to fit against the thermostat housing so that the two pieces close.

I am aware that there are different types of thermostats and housings but does anyone have any photos of the variations of these so I can confirm things?

That’s it for this week. Merry Xmas.
Attached Thumbnails
20181109_153444.jpg   20181109_181751.jpg   20191115_132950.jpg   20191222_135855.jpg   20191223_161058.jpg  

__________________
Cheers,

Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car

Last edited by Big D; 25-12-19 at 11:36.
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  #370  
Old 25-12-19, 09:24
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

More photos.
Attached Thumbnails
20191224_155946.jpg   20191224_155952.jpg   20191224_160002.jpg   20191217_082939.jpg   20191225_200718.jpg  

__________________
Cheers,

Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #371  
Old 14-01-20, 07:14
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

Hi all,

The gearbox assembly was an interesting exercise. You will recall I had to replace all the synchro rings and third gear so I had to completely dissemble the mainshaft. The mainshaft is reassembled on the spline in this order: Second gear, thrust washer, 2nd gear synchro ring, synchro hub assembly, 1st gear synchro ring, 1st gear, reverse gear.

I had a retired mechanical engineer give me some assistance which was great as he had rebuilt countless gearboxes in his career and at times during this rebuild I found two heads were better than one with a couple of little hurdles that I struck.

The main problem I had was that the new 1st and 2nd gear synchro hub assembly was a very tight fit on the mainshaft spline. The manual refers to ‘sliding the synchro hub assembly’ onto the splined shaft during reassembly. These hubs were never going to slide on. The old hub had to be pressed off and the new one had to be pressed on and we tried various methods in doing that, with the first gear down on the press and then first gear upwards on the press.

The difficulty with pressing the assembly on was that you had little control over the thrust washer and 2nd gear synchro ring positions once the process of pressing the assembly on started. The slightest movement of the first gear or the shaft would change the position of the thrust washer and then the teeth on the synchro hub assembly would not align properly with the thrust washer meaning the hub had to be pressed off again. The other problem was that if you pressed the hub assembly on with first gear down (shaft into hub), you couldn’t control the position of the synchro ring and this had a tendency to cant on the shoulder of second gear, at the last stage, meaning the hub would not go on any further. One also needs to be careful to keep the synchro hub together as an assembly during that pressing to ensure the locking rings inside the hub didn’t come away from their position in the process.

We repeated this process about 5 times trying different things to get the synchro hub aligned into the correct place. Finally, we decided to put a smidgeon of Loctite on the top surface of the thrustwasher to hold it at its precise location on the shaft splines long enough to get the teeth in the top of the hub assembly to align with it. As soon as torque was applied the Loctite broke away but it was enough to do the trick. We pressed the hub on with second gear down (hub onto shaft) and also used a little tool to hold the synchro ring up tight against the hub assembly as the hub was pressed down.

I’m not sure if all the synchro hubs are this tight, or whether it was this particular shaft and hub(s), but if the hub was a sliding fit as per the manual, then I wouldn’t have had these issues.

The rest of the gearbox assembly was relatively straightforward. I replaced all the bearings in the housing, most obtained off EBay at very reasonable prices. One of those bearings appeared to be just slightly different in thickness to the original meaning the end circlip was too tight a fit in the groove on the shaft. In the end, I cleaned up the circlip on a very fine bit of wet and dry paper and it worked fine. There would have only been maybe 0.001” in it, but it was enough.

I fitted the bell housing and set up all the clutch release bearing assembly. I need to find a spring now for the clutch release bearing sleeve. The gearbox is now painted and just about ready to fit.

The brushes for the starter motor arrived. These weren’t originals but they do fit and they should work fine.

That is all for this week.
Attached Thumbnails
20200101_111954.jpg   20200105_151049.jpg   20200105_162918.jpg   20200106_102545.jpg   20200108_111636.jpg  

__________________
Cheers,

Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #372  
Old 14-01-20, 07:15
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

More photos.
Attached Thumbnails
20200108_111641.jpg   20200108_123015.jpg   20200112_181710.jpg   20200112_161939.jpg  
__________________
Cheers,

Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #373  
Old 28-01-20, 09:16
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

Hi all,

Things are progressing with the engine assembly and my plan is to get this running before it goes into the hull.

I initially had the engine on some wooden blocks but now have it on a stand which we’ll run it on for a test before it goes in the hull. Yes, I know the engine mounts are upside down in the early photos…it was just easier…

I ran out of time to remove some broken manifold studs before I sent the block in for machining so I have now done that. What a pain in the butt job it was removing them. I’ve also drilled and tapped the new holes required at the ends of the block for the longer manifold used on the M8 versus the Scout Car.

I’ve fitted the water pump, oil filter, fan pulley mounts, coil, manifold and starter motor. I had to fabricate the generator mount stay and the bracket that holds the coil.

I was about to fit the fuel pump I had but realised the mount was wrong. I rebuilt this pump several years ago thinking it was for an M8 and had it stored away until now! I have since been told it is actually for a White halftrack. The correct fuel pump is now on the way to me….

The timing cover on this engine didn’t have a plug in it for blanking off what would be the oil filler hole on the scout car engine. What I did was to use a 1.5” frost plug, clean up the circumference a bit as it was fractionally too big, and tap that into place in the timing cover.

The dipsticks for the M8 and scout car are obviously different in length. Is the length of the handle the only difference? I know the sumps are slightly different but I wondered if it was just the handle being a bit longer for accessibility in the hull.

I have a NOS distributor on the way along with some water pump parts I still need. I actually wasn’t aware until now that the distributor cap for the M8/M20 uses an acorn type connection for the leads. The thread diameter is ¼” UNF. Has anyone seen these connectors commercially available?

I fabricated the small adjustable rod for the automatic choke. I modified the design a bit and included a locknut on the end of each leg to hold them onto the centre piece. I understand the original had grub screws securing the legs. I will need to go back to the forum thread where I got the dimensions and photos for this though to confirm the weight of the rod joining the two legs. I imagine that will have an effect on the operation of the auto choke….

That is all for this week…
Attached Thumbnails
20200120_121755.jpg   20200120_132948.jpg   20200122_104140.jpg   20200122_173147.jpg   20200122_180922.jpg  

__________________
Cheers,

Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #374  
Old 28-01-20, 09:18
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

More photos.
Attached Thumbnails
20200122_180938.jpg   20200123_175931.jpg   20200126_123917.jpg   20200128_120528.jpg   20200128_195944.jpg  

__________________
Cheers,

Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #375  
Old 15-02-20, 09:19
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

Hi all,

I’ve continued with the assembly of the engine as well as doing a few jobs on the hull. A few of the last parts I was waiting for also arrived (thanks Taylor and Brian).

I had to rebuild the fuel filter, so that is all done now. I’ve also plumbed the clutch slave cylinder on the side of the gearbox. This is using 5/16 tube instead of the standard ½” tube so I’ve had to get a flexible hose made up for it. I am using ‘olive’ type connections on the lines at the gearbox end, rather than flares.

My retired auto-mechanic friend and I attacked the bleeding of the hydraulic throttle. He was fairly adamant that his good old vacuum pump would do the job but we found that it just couldn’t generate enough suction to draw the fluid up over the ‘hump’ in the line at the front of the hull. After that he dug out an old pressure builder he had made several years ago and we adapted that for the M8. I couldn’t find a spare reservoir cap with the necessary 1 ¼” -18 diameter to modify for the pressure bleeder. However, I did find a cap that was 1 ¼”-16 diameter and using a bit of plumbing tape got enough of a seal in the reservoir to get sufficient pressure into the system. I have to say that this worked a treat. Perhaps it was a little too good as it was a great way to find multiple leaks in the lines! A little bit of tightening here and there on the flared connections and some water to wash the hydraulic fluid away and we were almost there. We bled at the junction point that I made up and then we disconnected the pressure bleeder then and used the vacuum pump to finish it off at the bleed point on the slave cylinder. Ten minutes later and I now have a working hydraulic throttle. It feels very smooth.

Up until a day or so ago, I hadn’t found the correct screw in connectors for the ignition leads sold separately. I thought to get around that I would use ¼” UNF cut off screws and use standard distributor ignition connectors to fit over the threaded shafts in the distributor cap. In the meantime, I got a ‘lead’ on where I could find the correct connectors and they are now on the way (thanks Brian).

I didn’t realise that there were the remnants of the old temperature sensor still in the head so I had to remove that with a ½ NPT tap. I’ve fitted a new sensor now. Hopefully this will match the temperature gauge I have.

The generator is mounted on the generator mounting bracket using two large 5/8” bolts. These bolts have a shoulder on them with the diameter of the bolt shafts a little bigger for the corresponding holes in the mounting bracket. Unfortunately I only had one of these bolts and it is not the sort of thing you can get off the shelf so I had to get a ¾” bolt turned down instead. It makes for an expensive bolt!

I have run out of time to find a replacement pulley for the generator. The one I had was broken in three pieces and had already been repaired once. I have had it brazed up by the guys in the engineering shop so hopefully it will do the job until I find the elusive replacement. Does anyone know about balancing these? If you look carefully at the photos you will see that the splined hole for the generator shaft wasn’t even centred when this was manufactured so I’m not sure I need to worry about the balance….

Is anyone still supplying rebuild kits suitable for modern gas for these fuel pumps? They seem to be harder and harder to get…

That’s all for this week.
Attached Thumbnails
20200206_145511.jpg   20200212_084224.jpg   20200211_124054.jpg   20200212_095940.jpg   20200212_095952.jpg  

__________________
Cheers,

Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #376  
Old 15-02-20, 09:21
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

More photos.
Attached Thumbnails
20200214_085906.jpg   20200214_102756.jpg   20200215_131757.jpg   20200215_131810.jpg   20200215_131826.jpg  

__________________
Cheers,

Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #377  
Old 15-02-20, 16:00
David Dunlop David Dunlop is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 2,308
Default

Darryl.

Do you have a bare splined shaft available the gen pulley will fit on?

If so, you could centre the pulley on the shaft and place the assembly between two hard level surfaces (steel or glass is best) and see if the assembly stays where you placed it or rolls to a different point and stops. If the latter, the assembly is out of balance and has stopped where the most weight is at the bottom.

Seems odd that somebody milled out some metal between the fins on that pulley on the ‘short side’ of the shaft hole. I would have thought that would have made the ‘long side’ even heavier.

David
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  #378  
Old 15-02-20, 23:15
lynx42 lynx42 is offline
Rick Cove
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Paynesville, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,821
Default

Hi Darryl, any reason that you have put the generator pully on back to front? The fins should be up against the generator face not out there where you can get caught on them. The fins are to push cooling air through the genny.

Doing a great job. I'll have to pressure feed my Lynx hydraulics to find the leaks.

Cheers Rick.
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1942 White Scoutcar
1940 Chev Staff Car
1940 F30S Cab11
1940 Chev WA LRDG "Te Hai"
1941 F60L Cab12
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1942 Bren Gun Carrier VR no.2250
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  #379  
Old 16-02-20, 02:07
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

Hi Rick

Good spotting. I had been playing around with the pulley and its alignment at the time. I have put it on the correct way since then and it seems to spin evenly enough.

Yes, I was impressed with the pressure bleeder option and ordered one of these from the US. It seemed to have pretty favourable reviews from what I had seen and really the only drawback with it was the lack of a release switch on the output. The hydrovac should be done this week so I will hopefully have this bleeder by then and will use it to bleed the brakes.
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Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #380  
Old 16-02-20, 03:27
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

Hi David

Not a spare one, I’m afraid. I did play with the pulley on the generator spline both ways and I actually think it will spin okay. I will keep an eye on it when we hopefully fire up the engine next week.
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1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #381  
Old 16-02-20, 08:49
lynx42 lynx42 is offline
Rick Cove
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Paynesville, AUSTRALIA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D View Post

Hi Rick

........

Yes, I was impressed with the pressure bleeder option and ordered one of these from the US. It seemed to have pretty favourable reviews from what I had seen and really the only drawback with it was the lack of a release switch on the output. ......

I reckon I could make one of them up with a garden weed sprayer. Let you know.
Cheers Rick
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  #382  
Old 01-03-20, 08:55
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

Hi all,

This weekend, a friend and I fired up the M8 engine for the first time. Ed is a good engine man and he worked on British Army military vehicles in his younger days. He did most of the internal assembly and set up on the block.

I had completed the assembly of all the accessories on the engine on a tubular steel stand and I set up a wooden platform in front for the radiator so I could run that at the same time and make sure that was working okay as well. I don’t have an original upper radiator pipe so I cut a bit of pipe to temporarily use. This bit of tube is a bit longer than what the parts manual specifies but I needed the extra length so I could give the fans enough clearance from the makeshift radiator platform.

I remote wired the engine into the hull of the M8. I thought this was a good idea initially but upon reflection introducing a whole lot of other variables into the start-up equation was maybe not the best move, when all the wiring in the hull was untested. It worked out alright in the end though.

The first switch on produced nothing and we found the starter solenoid wasn’t engaging. As I learnt on another forum, the M8 is wired as such that when the ignition is switched on, 12 volts is supplied to the control terminal on the starter solenoid. When the starter button is pushed, it grounds that 12 volts which activates the solenoid and sends 12 volts to the starter motor post. I wasn’t completely sure the solenoid I had needed the 12 volts on that post grounded, or needed 12 volts sent to that post, to actually activate the solenoid.

After checking with another M8 expert (thanks Willy) I confirmed the solenoid I had fitted was the correct type. After a bit more tracing I found that the cause of that issue was a bad earth on the instrument panel, so the grounding through the starter button was not taking place. After working through the circuit diagram again I couldn’t see how the instrument panel was actually grounded, as it is mounted on rubber insulating blocks. Anyway, I ran an extra length of wire from the instrument panel body to the panel mounting bracket on the hull. This gave the ground required.

Once I had the 12 volts coming off the solenoid to the starter motor, I found the starter motor wasn’t working. After a look at that I found that one of the brush springs was shorting out against one of the nuts holding the brush pigtails to the starter casing. Those wee springs don’t like high current through them and it damaged the spring. I had to search a bit to find a spring locally but a retired auto electrician I know managed to find one in his box of spares that would do the job. We put it all together and it worked but the nut on the little screw holding the brush pigtail to the case was still very close to the brush springs. I have wrapped the nut with a strip of insulation tape in the meantime but both of us agreed that the nuts are probably not standard. I have a new set of brush springs coming from the US and when I fit those I will find a nut with a lower profile.

I rigged up a fuel supply to the newly built fuel pump and first touch of the starter button on the instrument panel, the engine ran. It sounded very nice and seemed very responsive. The NOS fuel pump which I had put new neoprene diaphragms into worked well.

There were a couple of minor issues during our various tests, like one of the water pipes coming off and spilling water everywhere. I have been advised that I will receive the ‘Golden Screwdriver Award’ for not tightening the screw on the clamp enough. There was also a slight leak in the gasket in the thermostat housing, which I’ll sort out when I actually fit the thermostat.

After a number of starts we found the battery was starting to slow. I did a few voltage checks and it didn’t look like the generator was feeding the battery enough so I will check that and the regulator out.

I have a new calcium type N150 battery but I don’t have a compatible battery charger here and I wasn’t super confident it was being charged fully prior to us starting the engine. It certainly looks like that is the case now so I will order a new calcium compatible battery charger tomorrow.

It’s a great feeling seeing and hearing the engine run and knowing most of what is attached is operating correctly.

I will fit the clutch assembly and gearbox next and then fit the correct ignition lead terminals now that they have arrived (thanks Brian). They need a little ferrule at the end to stop the wire coming out which I have not seen available so but I might have to come up with an alternative for that.

After that, my next step is to fit the newly rebuilt brake hydrovac into the hull and complete all the plumbing on that. I will then pressure bleed the brake system and that should get the hull pretty much prepared for fitting the engine and gearbox assembly.

Here are a few videos of us running the engine, testing the generator and regulator etc:

https://youtu.be/sOCfMGhI3mU

https://youtu.be/VUlI76GAZBE

https://youtu.be/If3TuDe7TIQ

https://youtu.be/dMuRJgVTYV0
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Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #383  
Old 01-03-20, 08:56
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #384  
Old 08-03-20, 09:15
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

Hi all,

I managed to get a week off work and I’ve had a busy seven long days straight working on the M8, so this will be a lengthy post. I am aiming to get the M8 rolling for an airshow next month so the pressure is on…

I spent the best part of 3 days fitting the hydrovac, sorting out the correct fittings, putting in the last of the plumbing and with the help of my retired mechanic friend, bleeding the brake system. It was an education working on the brake system of this vehicle. I think my rough count was over 100 individual hydraulic connections for the brakes on this thing, and of course over 100 sources of potential leaks! I spent a fair bit of time going around each wheel and each axle checking all the connections before filling the master cylinder and starting the bleeding process.

I used the new power bleeder this time and it worked very well. However, its operation on the brake master cylinder was not straightforward. M8 and M20 owners will know that the brake master cylinder sits quite close to the sloped front of the hull. So close in fact, that I couldn’t get the cap for the pressure bleeder to screw onto the reservoir with the standard NPT straight fitting. I tried removing that and replacing it with a brass NPT elbow. Even then, I found it was still too close to the sloped part of the hull to screw the cap on. There wasn’t much in it so I got the grinder out and shaved a few millimetres off the top and top edges of the brass fitting to see if that would give me the clearance to get the cap on the reservoir. Alas, it was not, so I finally had to undo the six bolts that hold the large bracket that the brake and clutch master cylinders are bolted to and drop the whole assembly by about 2-3 mm. A bit of a pain in the butt, but that got me the clearance to get the pressure bleeder cap and elbow onto the brake master cylinder. I flared a bit of 3/8” tube and fitted it to the elbow and then used a hose clamp to attach it to the pipe on the pressure bleeder.

The manual on these things recommends 15 psi to bleed the brake system. We didn’t need anywhere near that much and did the whole system while at about 7 psi. The 7 psi was enough to get fluid spewing out of one of the joining connections that I had obviously completely missed when tightening everything! Note that the photo shows the pressure bleeder connected to the clutch master cylinder in preparation for that.

We bled from the top junction block that I made and then the three bleed points on the hydrovac from rear to front. The pedal was still spongey at that point so we went around the wheels after that. The pressure bleeder was very handy as it meant two of us could be outside the vehicle moving the equipment around and cleaning up any mess coming from any of the bleed nipples. All that was required was to keep a couple of litres of brake fluid in the pressure bleeder and to keep an eye on the gauge on the bleeder to make sure the pressure hadn’t dropped. I only had a problem with two connections; the flaring I had done on the tube from the bleed junction to the hydrovac was not good enough and that connection was seeping. That required pulling the section of tube out and redoing it, along with fitting a better quality tube nut. The brass tee connection on the front axle is also seeping a bit so I will need to find another one of these. I can recall being suspicious of this connector when I fitted it but it was the only one I could find at the time.

The brakes now feel good at the pedal with the required ¾” play. I just need to go around all the wheels and adjust the shoes now.

I also tidied up the ignition system with the new connectors. I couldn’t source the wee ferrules that hold the end of the wire in the plug but thanks to Brian for his suggestion about a blob of solder at the end. This stops the wire pulling out but still allows the plug to rotate on the wire for fitting.

Bolting the ignition lead tubing down requires getting the thermostat housing fitted at the same time, as one of the housing studs secures the ignition lead tubing. I made a thick gasket for the housing so that it would help align the thermostat in the housing. My retired mechanic friend tells me this thick gasket material is similar to the Vellumoid material specified in the parts manual. The gasket needs to be the thickness of the lip that goes around the body of the thermostat. The material is not easy to cut neatly but it helps to centre the thermostat in the housing when you bolt it together. I had read a forum post about these thermostats just ‘floating’ in the housing, and I suspect that was because the gasket material wasn’t thick enough and the hole in it was too big and it didn’t centre the thermostat.

I got the new battery charger for the calcium N150 battery. This is a seven stage smart charger and automatically works out the chemistry and voltage of the battery that is being charged. This brought the battery up to a fully charged state.

Ed and I ran the engine again and it started very quickly. We let the engine warm up and tested the operation of the thermostat. Ed also checked all the tappet clearances. It’s interesting that the M8 tappet clearance is 0.010” for both intake and exhaust whereas the Scout Car is 0.06” and 0.08”. I wonder why the difference….

There are still a couple of wee issues. The temperature gauge I have is a French one and doesn’t work with either sender I have. I have the correct US temperature sender in the head now so I will have to find the correct matching gauge. Thanks to Brian for sending me the details on that.

The voltmeter doesn’t work and I believe it is faulty. The ammeter also doesn’t appear to work but I need to do a bit more work on that to see if it is the gauge or something else. The fuel gauge now appears to be working which is good news.

The oil pressure on this engine goes to 30psi almost straight away and seems to hold there. Whether I have the gauge and sender matched correctly, I’m not sure, but we tested the oil pressure using a standalone gauge and it shows a similar figure. Out of interest, the scout car engine I recently rebuilt also sits on 30psi and it gets to that reading within a few seconds of start-up, unlike the experiences of others that I had read about of waiting 40 seconds for the oil pressure to show on the gauge.

There is still a question mark over the generator output/operation. I’m pretty sure I just haven’t got it earthed well enough on the block so I will remove that and remove the paint off the mounting surfaces and try it again once in the hull.

I’m also not sure that the starter motor is functioning at 100%. It rotates and starts the engine but it doesn’t appear to spin at the speed it did initially. I suspect the brush spring but the new ones I sourced should be here this week.

After the testing of the engine I removed all the wiring I had temporarily fitted and fitted the clutch assembly and gearbox. The shorter side of the hub on the clutch disc goes inside the pressure plate. I used an output shaft to align the clutch plate. You can’t get this shaft all the way into the new pilot bearing but it allowed me to align it well enough to get the gearbox spline in there.

All looks good at this stage for putting the complete engine assembly into the hull next week. In preparation for that, I’ll remove the fans, carb, starter motor, exhaust and generator. I figure the fewer things to get in the way, the better!

More to come next week!
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Cheers,

Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car

Last edited by Big D; 05-04-20 at 07:24.
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  #385  
Old 08-03-20, 09:17
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #386  
Old 17-03-20, 09:43
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

This week has been another busy one with getting the hull and engine ready for the installation, and then setting everything up once inside.

After another successful test run, I stripped everything off the engine that could potentially get in the way or get damaged while it was being fitted. I also gave the engine bay a freshen up with some new paint. There were lots of marks and scuffs from the many times I’ve got in and out of the thing!

Ed gave me a hand again. We used a strop on the front part of the engine and a strop and chain block on the gearbox end. One of the guys from Action Engineering next door came in with the Hiab truck and we were set to go. I’d have to say the installation of the engine and gearbox assembly was straightforward. The hiab crane made it easy and gave us the height and manoeverability we needed. I was guiding the motor in from the rear of the hull so I didn’t get a picture from the side but you do need quite a pitch on the assembly to get the gearbox under the cross member in the hull. Then it was just a matter of lowering the front of the engine and raising the gearbox end. A short time later I had the engine mounting pins in and the large bolts through the bellhousing mounts into the engine mounts on the cross member in the hull.

While the engine and gearbox assembly was straightforward, the radiator installation was a pain in the butt. The radiator was one of the few things I did not test fit. I didn’t see the point as there were only the two mounts and its positioning would be determined a little by the fan positioning once the engine was in, right?

You might recall that I have reproduction engine mounts, back plate that sits under the engine mounts, and radiator shrouds. The order in which to fit the radiator is to put the fan shrouds over the pulleys, fit the fans, then lower the radiator and fit the shrouds to the radiator. Easy eh? It wasn’t so straightforward for me. The first problem we struck was with the reproduction back plate that sits under the steel engine mounts and over the pintle hook. The cavity in the plate for the pintle hook was too long (toward the front of the vehicle) and extended under the radiator by about 1/2". The result was that the radiator would not come low enough and kept sitting on this raised piece at the back of the plate. I was was left with little option but to get the grinder and cut off disc out and cut a small section of this raised piece out. This allowed the radiator to come down low enough so that it was starting to line up with the fans.

The second problem was in aligning the radiator and shrouds with the fans. I had already had to slot some of the mounting holes on the reproduction shrouds so that the holes lined up with the captive nuts on the radiator, and I don’t think these shrouds were a great reproduction either. The radiator still seemed too low in relation to the motor though and I found I had to use three of the small rubber packers (instead of the one specified in the manual) under each radiator mount to get it to the height required to line up with the fans, once the shrouds were fitted.

I started to suspect the rear engine mounts then. Thanks to Stewart, he confirmed the height of the engine mount at 3 3/8" at the engine end and 1 5/16" at the other end. I measured mine and they measure 3 9/16" at the engine end and 1 5/16" at the other end. So, the engine mounts are holding the front of the engine 3/16” too high. That would account for one of the extra spacers but that would still leave the radiator too high. As it is, the radiator is only sitting about 3 mm above the engine mounts so there is not a lot of room and I'm not sure I would want to go too much lower for the preservation of the radiator.

Were there differences in the radiators and potentially the radiator mounts in the hull? Where the radiator sits now (with three spacers) it looks about right for height but as I say, the mounts in the hull appear too low.

I fitted the plates under the fuel filter. They are not easy to access and fit. Interestingly, the one at the front that sits under the gas tank, will only go in if you remove the gearbox filler plug. Otherwise, this obstructs the fitment of the plate.

I received the new brush springs for the starter motor. These were shown as being replacements for the original brush springs which are part number AL- MZ19. I don’t think they are correct as the end of the spring does not fit centrally on the brush. However, I have ‘adpated’ them to fit and I’m hoping they will do the job.

That’s it for this week….
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Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #387  
Old 17-03-20, 09:44
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
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1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #388  
Old 05-04-20, 10:05
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

Hi all,

With Covid19 here, I haven’t been able to do much to the M8, but prior to the lockdown I got a few things done.

I fitted all the bits and pieces back onto the engine after I had stripped it back for the installation. Ed and I fired up the engine again and it went well. It looks like my tweak with the starter motor brush springs has done the job. I note though that I have got coolant seeping from the water pump elbow and the thermostat housing where it bolts to the head so It looks like I will have to drain the radiator and fix those up. Bugger.

Thanks to Michael for his tips on my generator problems. You will recall I didn’t think the generator was charging. I had previously read about polarising the generator but just assumed that the auto electrician would have done this when he tested it. Anyway, Michael suggested I check on this and sure enough it was the problem. I did a whole lot more reading again about generator polarising and confirmed I needed to establish what type of grounding my generator had before trying to polarise it. I had read that if you have a non-insulated Field terminal on the generator case, then it was likely you had a Type B grounded generator which is one which is internally grounded. The generator on the M8 was certainly one with a non-insulated field terminal but just to be sure I checked the resistance between the field terminal on the generator and the generator case, while I lifted the brushes. The continuity remained the same which confirmed a Type B internally grounded generator. Once I confirmed that, I removed the Field wire from the Regulator and flashed that field wire to the positive terminal on the battery. Once connected back up to the regulator, that did the trick and I then had a generator that was charging the battery.

I fitted the lower engine covers around the battery side of the engine. I have to say, it does make the engine area look really smart. I need to modify the brake line going into the hydrovac though as the way I have folded it, it won’t allow me to fit the lower engine cover on that side.

I made up a rod for activating the carburettor arm from the throttle slave cylinder. I made it straight although I have seen a number of variations; straight and with several bends in it. The straight one works well in my setup though and the hydraulic throttle works well.

You might recall I had a Voltmeter and Ammeter that weren’t working. I figured I would have a crack at seeing what the problem was with the voltmeter. This is a Stewart Warner voltmeter and not sure if you have ever tried fixing one of these but for starters you have to get the bezel off. I used a small screwdriver with a bent tip on it, to pry the edges of the bezel up. It takes some time so you have to be patient.

Once you have the bezel off, you need to remove the assembly from the outer housing. There are two insulators holding the positive and negative terminals and you have to remove these first. Once they are off, you can push the assembly out of the housing. There are two small rivets holding the faceplate on. I couldn’t see a way to easily remove them without damaging the gauge so I filed the ends of the rivets off and just pushed them out.

Once inside you can see the bi-metal strip that is connected to the pointer. When this is connected to a power supply, the bi-metal strip bends and the pointer moves. In testing, I found the circuit on the voltmeter was open. I couldn’t quite work out why as everything appeared to be connected, albeit through glue holding the wires onto the terminal posts. I eventually found that the wire from one end of the bi-metal strip was not connected to the positive post, despite it being glued down to the terminal along with the other wire. I’m not sure how this would have ever worked but it looked like it had been glued in place, but had never ever made contact with the terminal post.

I’m not used to dealing with wires that are the thickness of cotton but I removed that wire from the glue, wrapped it around the other wire and then tried to connect it to the positive terminal. I couldn’t get solder to take to the terminal so in the end, I left a blob of solder on the wire and using a drop of super glue, connected it to the terminal post. I fitted it to the instrument panel and tested it and it worked. I couldn’t reuse the rivets so I put a small droplet of glue on each side of the wee panel. I then cleaned up the bezel, fitted it and folded over the edges of the bezel. Job done. Haha.

Back to the engine, and all you clutch gurus…..

I’m having some clutch issues and would be keen to get some ideas from you all. I was a bit suspicious about the clutch before we put the engine in, but we did appear to get some pressure so I ran with it. After bleeding the clutch though, there is a problem.

The issue seems to be that the fingers on the clutch pressure plate are compressed too much during assembly of the pressure plate and clutch disc. When you activate the clutch using the arm on the side of the housing, there is about 10mm free play in the arm, and then about 25 mm of ‘soft’ throw in the arm. I say soft, as it appears that it is just the release bearing movement on the shaft I can feel, and only finger strength is required to move it. The arm ends up in roughly just past the vertical position at the end of its travel. As a result, the disc is not released. I’ve had the clutch and gearbox in and out now a couple of times and it is still not right.

Here’s what I’ve done/checked:

• The clutch release bearing assembly looks correct. The yoke and arm are as I received them and were already wired. They match the configuration in the manual.

• The clutch release bearing is a recommended replacement model. It is about 90mm in diameter while the inside diameter of the fingers is 70mm. The clutch release bearing has about 25mm of travel on the retainer on the main shaft.

• I’ve put the clutch disc in the right way, with the long end of the hub toward the flywheel. This puts the raised portion of the hub inside the circular opening in the pressure plate. Note that the 1943 TM 9-743 manual suggests fitting the clutch with the short end of the hub to the flywheel. This error was corrected in the 1944 TM 9-743 manual and described in an issue of Army Motors. The disc will go in the other way around but I imagine the springs on the hub would clash with the crankshaft bolts.

• The clutch disc fits neatly and flat on the flywheel face. The end of the hub on the clutch disc is clear of the pilot bearing so it is not bottoming out on that.

• I have examined the pressure plate and the clutch disc alongside a spare pressure plate and clutch disc. They are the same diameters and thicknesses, to within a couple of millimetres. The height of the pressure plate face and fingers within its housing is the same as the spare pressure plate, again to within a couple of millimetres. The pressure plates are as I received them and they have not been professionally set up.

• I wrote a while ago about the differences between the White Scout car and M8 clutches. The Scout car pressure plate is bigger so won’t fit, so the clutch pressure plate on this is correct.

• From what I’ve seen, the M8 hub setup on the clutch disc is different to the White Scout Car, with the short end of the splined shaft on the raised portion of the hub on the M8. The White Scout car hub has the long end of the splined shaft on the raised portion of the hub. I think I have this right, but thinking about it, I don’t think it would matter. Interestingly, I saw a picture of someone restoring a Scout Car clutch and the clutch disc in that was the same as these M8 (?) ones.

• Each time I have fitted the disc and pressure plate I have ensured the disc is central on the flywheel and under the pressure plate. The raised portion of the hub sits neatly in the middle of the pressure plate with about 10mm of clearance around the circumference of the circular opening.

• I’ve been using an old output shaft to align the clutch disc during the tightening of the pressure plate. The output shaft doesn’t go fully into the pilot bearing because of the threaded section on the end, but it is enough to align the disc. The gearbox fits into the bellhousing and engages with the pilot bearing without any problems. It bolts up neatly, so I believe I have everything aligned, otherwise the gearbox wouldn’t slot into place.

• The flywheel is an original one with new ring gear fitted. It appears to be seated on the crankshaft and in the bell housing correctly, but I have nothing else here that I can compare the depth to.

• When the pressure plate and clutch disc assembly is tightened down on the flywheel, the fingers on the pressure plate drop around 20-22mm from their neutral position. This seems excessive to me and I think this is the problem. The fingers end up so low that the release bearing is not making contact with them.

What have I missed? Any ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks.
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__________________
Cheers,

Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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  #389  
Old 05-04-20, 10:06
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
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Cheers,

Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
1941 Willys MBT Trailer
1941 Australian LP2A Machine Gun Carrier
1943 White M3A1AOP Scout Car
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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Old 22-05-20, 09:09
Big D Big D is offline
Darryl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 598
Default M8 restoration

Hi all,

The Covid lockdown has slowed things down for me on the M8 but some progress has been made since we moved to Level 2 lockdown.

I fixed the joints around the water pump elbow and thermostat housing where coolant was seeping out. So far, so good, so hopefully that will cure my leaking problems. I refitted the lower engine panels around the engine. I couldn’t find an easy way to fit the panel on the exhaust side without removing the length of exhaust header which is bolted to the manifold. Has anyone else found this? I would have thought the panel would have been made so that it could be removed without disturbing the exhaust header pipe. The fitted panels certainly make the area around the engine bay look nice and neat.

I am not satisfied with the Hydrovac vacuum setup that I have so I will tidy that up a bit more over the next week. I have fitted the repaired voltmeter back into the instrument panel and that is working well.

I resolved my clutch issues by replacing the pressure plate. I’m not really sure how this did it, as the plates looked identical. However, I was did confirm that my original measurements were out by some 12mm so my original diagnosis of the problem wasn’t as bad as I had thought. I fitted the new pressure plate and gradually tightened it, while periodically sliding the transmission into and out of place and ensuring that there was still contact between the release bearing and the pressure plate fingers right through until I had fully tightened the pressure plate. I can only guess that the other pressure plate needed some adjustment. I am happy that it is resolved now though.

Once I was sure I had the clutch physically working I bled the clutch hydraulics using the pressure bleeder. This pressure bleeder does work well. What do you guys do for the bleed screw on the clutch slave cylinder? I have the original military type with the small ¼” ‘dust cap’ screw in the top of the bleed screw. I’ve found that during bleeding using the original bleeder, with the tapered thread, the fluid tends to come up the threads and spill out around the base of the bleeder before it works its way up the centre of the bleeder (with the dust cap off) and into the hose going into a jar.

I actually replaced the bleeder with a modern bleed screw with a bleeder nipple built into the top. It was the same thread (7/16-20) but what I didn’t realise is that the original bleeder has a tapered thread and the new one with the straight thread doesn’t seal properly.

How were these cylinders originally bled? Was it done the same way? Was it just a matter of them being loosened during the bleeding and allowing fluid to come out over the side of the cylinder? Is there a bleeder available with a tapered thread and a proper bleed nipple on the top?

The clutch now does work hydraulically and there is some satisfaction in seeing the slave cylinder operate while pushing the pedal! Thanks to Jonathan for his video of the clutch arm in operation as this showed the correct movement of the arm, and confirmed that I had everything set up correctly. The next time I am in the workshop I will run the engine with the drive-shafts disconnected and see if the clutch allows me to work my way through the gears in the gearbox which will tell me I have the clutch adjusted right. It looks good so far though.

I adjusted all the brakes and they have a good feel to them. However, I now have a problem with the wheel cylinders. The wheel cylinders were all stainless steel sleeved and I used NOS cups on the pistons which looked and felt good before I fitted them. After bleeding though, I noticed that four of the wheels were leaking hydraulic fluid though. I took two wheels off and the fluid appeared to have worked its way past both top and bottom cups on both wheel cylinders on both wheels, creating a small pool of hydraulic fluid at the bottom of the drum. One wheel was considerably worse than the other. I removed both cylinders on both wheels, pulled them apart and couldn’t see anything wrong with the cups or the bores.

My initial thought was that the original cups weren’t as effective with the modern brake fluid (Dot 4) and that perhaps the brake fluid back then had a higher viscosity. My other thought was that it was possible that the sleeves were made slightly too big for the original cups, but this was all done by my brake guy so it seemed unlikely. In the end, I took a wheel cylinder and pistons to a seal manufacturer and they made me a small number of new cups, enough to do two wheels.

When I got them back I found the new cups to be a very tight fit on the pistons and they looked to have a bit more material contacting the bore. I fitted these and bled the brakes, confident that it would solve my leaking problems. However, within a day of bleeding the brakes, the cylinders appear to be leaking again. I now wonder if the guy who fitted the sleeves didn’t seal the sleeve inside the cylinder properly and that the hydraulic fluid is working its way out between the sleeve and the cylinder. I plan to remove the drums again, remove the wheel cylinder caps and get a buddy to press the brake pedal gently to see if I can see where the fluid is coming out. I’m not sure how easy that will be to see but otherwise I figure the best bet is to return a couple of these cylinders to my brake guy so that he can bench test them.

Apart from the wheel cylinder problems, it is a good feeling knowing that all the hydraulics do actually work; throttle, clutch and brakes.

That is all for this week….
Attached Thumbnails
20200520_162707.jpg   20200520_162713.jpg   20200520_162727.jpg   20200520_162833.jpg   20200520_162840.jpg  

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Cheers,

Darryl Lennane

1943 Willys MB
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1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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