Need help on American Armament Corp

[boblamoreaux]

I'm a part-time writer doing research on American Armament Corp. of (pre-World War II and) World War II "fame". Their cannon were mounted in Marmon-Herrington tanks and in Preston Tucker's "Tucker Turret" as well as in the P-39 and one prototype Bell airplane. AAC was closely involved with Johnson Automatics (Johnson rifles and light machine guns) and with Brewster Aeronautical Co. I need info on their 37-mm guns and whether they also operated as Stafford Ordnance, selling "re-built" 11-mm Vickers guns to the NPC (or anyother foreign purchaser). I have a fair amount of info on the company and their associations (including a relationship with Soley Armament in England). Anyone having any info, etc., please contact me. Many thanks!
Bob Lamoreaux
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[Tony Smith]

Bob, there was discussion regarding AAC in the thread Nice T16 pics...but help identify Dutch AT Gun.

[nuyt]

Hello Bob,

Nice to meet you!

You wrote:

"I need info on their 37-mm guns and whether they also operated as Stafford Ordnance, selling "re-built" 11-mm Vickers guns to the NPC (or anyother foreign purchaser). "

Regarding the M-H's 37mm automatic guns I advise you to contact both Hans Heesakkers (NL) as well as Leland Ness (US). They are authorities regarding these tanks and armaments.

About the Vickers mg's:

The NEI were home to a large number of variants of the Vickers machineguns. Not counting tank, armoured car and airplane versions, by 1942 KNIL army operated four different infantry types (I assume you are talking about these):

- the M23, basically the Dutch 6,5mm infantry mg (apprx 400 in service);

- the M23 7,7mm Australian (acquired in Oz from 1941 on, apprx 250-300 delivered by March 42. No less than 725 had been ordered. By August 41 the US Mission report mentions 135 on hand. The Japanese found 126 on Java alone. If delivery and production were up to schedule a maximum of another 150 pieces may have been delivered to the NEI before March 1 42);

- the M23 Amerika 7,7mm (according to Martens/ De Vries: Nederlandse vuurwapens KNIL en ML some 500 were delivered in 1940, but there is no further info. Permission was needed from th US authorities as well as the British Purchasing Commision - that had a claim on them. According to the US Mission report 500 were "on hand" by August 41);

- the M23 Borsumij (a 7,7mm NEI home production by the Borneo Sumatra Maatschappij on Java starting in 1940. Unknown numbers produced. Several KNIL units, notably those on Timor and Central-Java used them in March 42).

In a letter to the Queen of Febr 1942 the HQ states that only 81 .30 mg's are on hand, as well as 366 of .303 cal and 393 6,5mm guns.

The last ones must be the Dutch Vickers, the first some Colts ordered as well, the second must be the Australian and Borsumij Vickers together. Where are the US Vickers?

The NEI bought the most outlandish collection of machineguns in 1940-42: Lewis's from the US (KNIL operated 3 different versions in two calibers), cal .30 rim Hotchkiss with Russian WW1 vintage ammo, also acquired in the US and Fiats and Breda's from the British in North Africa and all other sorts from weapon collectors in the US.

I have no info on Stafford, nor about the qualities of the Vickers from the US. Can you tell us some more?

One possible clue: There was an outstanding contract by April 41 to a Alfred Ettlinger, NY for TNT and a minimum of 400 machineguns (max 500) at 613 USD a piece with extra barrels and ammo, but that was febr. 41. No mg brand is named though.

Well, that's all I have at the moment...

Kind regards,
Nuyt


PS enclosed picture (source Beeldbank) of a Hotchkiss in Suriname, WW2, adapted by Van Karner Ordnance Corporation, firing Russian Ammo.

[boblamoreaux]

Many thanks for your reply, Eric. I do have the Maartens KNIL book (being hampered by not having proficiency in any language but English and a smattering of Spanish), I have been unable to appreciate the entire book. I did manage to translate some of the material on van Karner (who also made flare guns). The 7.62 Russian caliber was chosen because of the large surplus of that ammo in U.S. stores, made for the Russians during World War I, but not shipped. (I think I got that from the KNIL book.) I wonder if those 400-500 machine guns were the "remanufactured" Vickers. My information came from two sources, the first mention being in "Exporting Arms: The Federal Arms Exports Administration" by Murray S. Stedman, Jr., the second being an article by James M. Ludlow in the Department of State Bulletin, Vol. X, No. 261 (June 24, 1944), pp. 576-588 entitled "Control of the International Traffic in Arms". The Stedman book (p. 103) states: At the request of the Department of State, the Stafford Ordnance Corporation was investigated by the Department of Justice during the latter half of 1942. The corporation had been formed under New York laws with the stated purpose of disposing of more than 450 Vickers machine guns and parts, with a stated value of $575,000. The guns had originally been purchased as scrap from the Government at auction in 1935 for a nominal sum as World War I surplus. Some 350 of the guns were sold to the Chinese Government in 1938 and the remainder were being reconditioned for sale to other customers. It was learned by the F.B.I. that the corporation was negotiating for sale of the guns to the Lend-Lease authorities. Inasmuch as some of the principals of the corporation were known to have been engaged previously in the sale of war materials to South American and to Spain, a thorough investigation was made and it was found that no Federal violation had occurred." The Ludlow article indicates that some 400 of the remanufactured Vickers guns were sold to the N.P.C. and arrived in the N.E.I. in time to be captured by the Japanese. He suggested that it was just as well, as the remanufactured guns did not function properly. By the way, the Public Record Office (Great Britain) has some interesting material on both N.P.C. purchases in the U.S.A. as well as material transfered to the Dutch for use in the N.E.I., from material received by the British in Lend-Lease. If you are interested, I would be willing to share this material with you.

[nuyt]

Hi Bob,

Yeah, that Public Office material sounds interesting! Most of the NPC stuff is missing (or has been destroyed after WW2), so there may be some missing links there! It would be great if you could send me some copies...

Kind regards,
Nuyt

[Stellan Bojerud (RIP)]

Originally posted by ericnuyt
- the M23 Borsumij (a 7,7mm NEI home production by the Borneo Sumatra Maatschappij on Java starting in 1940. Unknown numbers produced. Several KNIL units, notably those on Timor and Central-Java used them in March 42).

Interesting!

I thought that the Borsumij had not produced any MGs before the Japanese invasion. Where was this factory situated?

Greetings

Stellan

[nuyt]

Stellan, there offices were in Semarang, Java. Their Technical Dept produced the Vickers, I assume they were in that city as well.
Kind regards,
Nuyt