Tracks

[martyn]

Hi how are you all doing for track and who would be intrested in some NEW track made to original specs looking in to having a limited number of complete sets made in the early part of nxt year.

[JTH]

Well I'm in if they don't break the bank.

Jeff

[kevin powles]

hi martyn, put me down for a set, i have several NOS track links if you need a pattern for casting, propper numbered and dated carrier ones not T16.

[RichardT10829]

likewise stick me down for a set...... pending on costs of course

[martyn]

I have a new unused track link thats not a T16 one going to get a price for a patten and just take things from there will be a few weeks, will keep you all informed on how or if this project is going.

[Adame]

Hi Marty

What country are you in?

Cheers
Adam

[RichardT10829]

Good old Blighty Lives Mid / South England (lincoln way if i recall correctly)

last quote i got for one set was 10k based on 336 links being cast, machined and repinned. The foundry said the more they get the cheaper they are, could not work that out in my head but apparently more is less as they say

i have got some excelent condition links Martyn if you need anymore.

[martyn]

Hi
Iam located in Lincoln, England.

[ron]

Hi Richard and Martyn,
On the subject of new track, I have just put a complete N.O.S set of track on my Met gas carrier it came in sections of 21 links complete with its original tags,so far its not even moved ten feet on this track, at those prices I may have to rip it off and flog it off, just joking of course. It had sat in a shed for over thirty years befor I found it, In all the years that I have been restoring carriers this is only the second set of new track that I have ever found, the other set I also owned is on a carrier that I restored,its now in a museum,and thats only done about two hundred yards in its life .
Regards Ron

[RichardT10829]

the casting is the easy part, its the machining that makes it so damned expensive, pitty knowone here in england is connected to a precision engineers.......... if we all chipped in for the cutting bits for a machine, it would drastically reduce the costs of making new track.......

on a tangent here :-
I am a member of www.turbominis.co.uk which is a performance based forum for old Minis, the lads there are pioneering new methods of getting 200+bhp out of mini's which is not a cheap hobby, what happens is they all club together pooling skills and money to prototype, produce and distribute performance equipment (ie you end up with top notch kit for rock bottom prices)


so far in the classic MV community i have never seen this pheonomenon, and i dont want to sound insulant or cheeky or even cause any offence....but it seems most are out to make a lot of bucks its very much "business is business"...... information is striclty need to know, very cloak and dagger. I put this down to there not being enough bits for everyone so it is an expensive fight to get the bits, and when you find them they are sometimes so over the top with price.....


I open heartidly encourage and endorse what Martyn is trying to do here and i know from past experience the "Group Buy" method is a good way to go.
I deffinately know somewhere that would make the pins very very cheap..... Martyn knows a good foundry, all we need is a mates rates firm to machine the links then getting new track could be very affordable.......

Martyn will no doubt get back with a quote per set soon enough and we could go from there.



edit: just a warning if anyone does click on the blue link be aware that Turbo minis is also global forum....but is very outspoken, lots of sarcasm...it even has a sisters pictures section ! so if your easily offended dont click on that link !

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

the casting is the easy part, its the machining that makes it so damned expensive, pitty knowone here in england is connected to a precision engineers.......... if we all chipped in for the cutting bits for a machine, it would drastically reduce the costs of making new track.......

on a tangent here :-
I am a member of www.turbominis.co.uk which is a performance based forum for old Minis, the lads there are pioneering new methods of getting 200+bhp out of mini's which is not a cheap hobby, what happens is they all club together pooling skills and money to prototype, produce and distribute performance equipment (ie you end up with top notch kit for rock bottom prices)


so far in the classic MV community i have never seen this pheonomenon, and i dont want to sound insulant or cheeky or even cause any offence....but it seems most are out to make a lot of bucks its very much "business is business"...... information is striclty need to know, very cloak and dagger. I put this down to there not being enough bits for everyone so it is an expensive fight to get the bits, and when you find them they are sometimes so over the top with price.....


I open heartidly encourage and endorse what Martyn is trying to do here and i know from past experience the "Group Buy" method is a good way to go.
I deffinately know somewhere that would make the pins very very cheap..... Martyn knows a good foundry, all we need is a mates rates firm to machine the links then getting new track could be very affordable.......

Martyn will no doubt get back with a quote per set soon enough and we could go from there.



edit: just a warning if anyone does click on the blue link be aware that Turbo minis is also global forum....but is very outspoken, lots of sarcasm...it even has a sisters pictures section ! so if your easily offended dont click on that link !

Richard..
I believe what you are describing is economics 101..supply and demand..and free enterprise as opposed to the communist system..
Now not to be sarcastic or rude ,but I have been around the track a time or two and have allways found those that would bend over backwards to help each other and others that would steal the pennies off a dead mans eyes and, dog in the manger that they were, would rather see his pile of treasures rust into the ground than sell..give ..donate a lock washer ,and the bastards usually die still clutching that last rusty bolt that their old lady fires in the garbage...
but good luck with your enterprise and may your rose coloured glasses allways be polished..
It takes all kinds..

[RichardT10829]

believe me, I do not wear rose tinted glasses.... But i do believe in change and there is absolutely no reason why the situation cannot change for the better, the componentry that goes into a carrier is so damned basic i mean come on it was made during the war and in a rush hahahaha. i do promote a family ethic in that those in the same situation club together to make matters easier.....to coin a great British forces motto "Improvise Adapt and Overcome"

[malcolm erik bogaert]

Hear hear..I was brought up on the old Legion Etrange ethos of MARCH OR DIE....listen to the Dylan song Change is a comming! regards to all from a hot and suny north-northumberland.Malcolm

[martyn]

I have had a quote for a master patten track link ,iam working out now how much it would cost to drill the links and make the pins. I believe that i can and will try my best to get a set of tracks (both sides) some where around £5 - 7k i would like it to be more near the 5 figure as i said before tho it would be a limited run.

[Perry Kitson]

Just a quick question,
I have a couple of NOS track links kicking around and the pin holes don't bear any machining marks. I have read that the track links were cast with cores in where the pins holes are and not machined. Hence the policy of removing one or two links after a short initial run-in of new track once the fine pebbled surface in the holes was worn off. If this is true, it would eliminate the need and expense for drilling the pin holes. I believe there was a fair bit of clearance between the pin and hole to allow the track to warp during the initial steering phase. I am not entirely certain, a foundry would tell you for sure, but I think those tolerances should be able to be held with the casting process itself.

Perry

[gjamo]

This photograph may help.
Graeme

http://cas.awm.gov.au/PROD/cas_searc..._simple_search


Caption reads: 1942-03-26. NEWPORT. TRAWLER TRACKS FOR THE BREN GUN CARRIER. CASTINGS FOR THE TRACK LINKS HAVE THEIR CORED HOLES REAMED TO SIZE ON A VERTICAL ARCHDALE DRILL

[ozm29c]

Fellows,
I know it is a bit off topic but anything to do with tracks is unavoidably expensive. In my case, brand new aftermarket weasel tracks are now available at $9500USD a pair , plus freight/shipping, plus taxes, plus plus plus. Much that I would like to purchase a set I just don't have that amount of spare cash lying around . Now my point is when faced with the expensive reality of getting mobile, it then gives you more incentive to look outside the square at more economical track repair solutions. In the case of Bren Carriers, I can't offer any advice but in my weasel realm I do have a less costly solution to my track fix.
Whatever avenue you choose to go down, good luck.
Cheers
John Wilson

[Ron Pier]

I once owned a Weasel and had to invent ways of keeping the track going. I've seen some after market Weasel track kits, that involve spacing the bogey wheels further apart. To me it looks ridiculous and other avenues would have to be explored to maintain an authentic look.( Just my two penneth off topic) Ron

[ron]

Hi Graeme,
Thanks for posting that pic, You just beat me to the punch, I have a copy of the same pic, the way that I understand it was the track link was cast undersize and them reamed to size, at first thought it might seem like a big job, but just look at the small pile of links on the side of the mill, that man would ream all of them and many more in a full days work,first get the track links cast and then set to and ream them out one at a time, the pyrimids were built one block at a time, just put in a days work on a mill with the right cutters,and you will be supprised just how much work you can get through you just need a quick action jig to hold the work,anyway thats my two bobs worth if I need any more new track I will not hesitate to make it,
Regards to you all Ron

[tankbarrell]

Link pin holes were drilled with.... a core drill! This is a three or four flute drillbit that is only able to drill out an existing hole, not drill from scratch.

They can cope with irregular shaped holes such as left from a casting core and produce a nice round hole. I have a selection and find them very useful.

As Ron says, you could drill a lot of links in a day but you would need a jig with bushes in to control the hole centres.

[JTH]

Perhaps two quotes are in order. Raw castings and reemed castings.

I had also heard that the alloy used in the casting is a bit hard to come by.

The expense of shipping from the UK, may make trying the same thing on this side of the pond. Please keep us info'd as to progress. At some point we are all going to run out if track bits!

Jeff

[RichardT10829]

cast manganese steel and its still used by the japanese army (among others) today. A firm based in Durham still make tracks for japanese contracts i enquired about this you see they were flat out all with those contacts so could not assist me, but reckon from the belt of links i showed them, they were not a difficult item to cast.

the various quotes way is a good idea as folk may have they're own facilities to drill/machine the links, or have say a load of nos pins that could be used etc etc.

as for shipping if enough folk over the pond wanted sets made they could be shipped in one small container and money could be saved. Thing is the lucky folk in canada have better access to carrier wrecks than us poor brits so may have better luck tracing track that way.

At some point we are all going to run out of track bits!

Jeff you hit the nail on the head !!! and this goes back to my previous rant, we really need to think outside the box now to ensure this stuff is available for future generations to keep these vehicles rolling and preserve important memories / history.

i am confident between us we can produce a viable resolution to this issue.... like i say i can have stacks and stacks of pins made at a good price, as long as i have correct diameter and length to supply my old man (and the college)

[Perry Kitson]

This may help. I found some info from when I was researching reproducing track pins. The following is the result from composition testing on the Canadian track pins.

Ni 2.31%
Mn 1.53%
Cr .31%
Fe 95.06%

Perry