jeep windshield - need help with a measurement

[Jack Geratic]

Can someone provide the height for the area marked in the photo below. It will help me figure out the dimensions of the markings.





regards,
Jack

[James P]

At the center line of the windshield it is 6 3/8" for the distance you show. Also feel free to use the "if it looks right it is right" method to make markings.

[Jack Geratic]

Hello James, thanks very much for that measurement.

After sizing things up and calculating, I come up with an AoS marking same height as the value you have provided, (the very top edge looks to be curved over the lip of the window frame section).

For other tactical making, I've gone with 4 and 5/8". That gives a clearance for the top and bottom just a little shy of an inch.




regards,
Jack

[Eric B]

Here are the measurements

Formation sign
The Formation Signs were located on the front left windshield and left rear bumperette, 7 inches (17.7 cm) wide x 5 1/2 inches (13.8 cm) tall. Originally painted to an aluminum or metal plate, which was attached by bolts, but by 1944 were being produced as a transfer.
Sometimes these were painted on the rear of a trailer in conjunction with the Unit sign. When painted on the rear bumperettes these were 7 x 5 Inches (12.8 x 17.8 cm)
The formation signs when painted on the windshield outer frame were 2 inches (5.1 cm) from the outside edge and flush with the top edge just bellow the glass.

Unit sign
The Unit signs were initially painted on the reverse side of the pass plate and displayed when pass sign was not in use.
The pass plate bracket was attached to the left front bumper and the rear left side of the body.
The Pass plate sign was 8 ½ inches wide x 9 ½ inches (21.6 x 24.5 cm) tall.
In 1942 the unit sign was located on the front right windshield and right rear bumperette. Originally these were painted on an aluminum or metal plate, which was bolted onto the vehicle, or later directly to the vehicle. By 1944 these background colours were available in transfers. When using these transfers, only the numbers were required to be painted.
Sometimes these were painted on the rear of trailers in conjunction with the Formation sign.
When painted on the rear bumperette the size was 5x7 inches (12.8 x 17.8 cm) as it had less surface to use than the front windshield.
The units signs when painted on the windshield outside frame were 2inches (5.1 cm) from the outside edge and flush with the top edge just bellow the glass.
The Unit number was 5 3/4 inches (15.4cm) tall
Artillery units used a 8 x 8 inch (20.3 x 20.3 cm) square

Thanks Eric

[Jack Geratic]

Eric, thank you for the above.

I do have that jeep diagram from the archives, and I agree, that layout appears to be somewhat how this jeep pictured with Worthington, has been painted up.



Looking at the markings of jeep photos concerning Crerar, I observe two distinctly different heights (and widths) when comparing the unit and formation markings.






I'll see what I can do to incorporate the 5x7 measurement - it certainly will be imperative for the rear since the surface area is so restrictive. Still though, I don't see the AoS number fitting within the 5x7 as it would drastically change the official proportions - unless there is a typo in the diagram and should read 7x5? Also, if the number is suppose to be 5 3/4 tall, that certainly won't work in the horizontal format.

regards,
Jack

[Ed Storey]

I am curious as to where this thread is leading. Is this a general look at wartime overseas Canadian Jeep markings or a minutia study of the markings on each of the individual Jeeps held by Headquarters 1st Canadian Army?

[James P]

Hey all, consider the thousands of vehicles that needed painting of signage and the guys skills, interest or ability to do the work and the time span. Of course there will be variations, so.............if it looks right it is right.

[Jack Geratic]

My purpose for initiating this thread is to create the artwork that will be printed out for a 1/35 scale jeep I've planned to build as operated by Crerar in Normandy. As can be seen, there are two different War Department/Census Numbers.

The diagram that was linked by Eric, appeared as appendix "C" section of the 4th Cdn Armd Div. around February 1943. I've no doubt of it's authenticity, but for me, I'm seeing something different in the 1944 photos.



The formation marking actually scales down quite nicely, just need to trim off a bit of the sides if wanting to conform to the 7 x 5.5 inches. I think I understand though, why the rounding down to 7 inches, as the scaling of the width results in quite a bizarre fraction.

The unit sign is much more problematic when going by the diagram measurements, as it would have you fit an almost square design into a horizontal format. Rereading Eric's post, I noticed he has switched the values around, 7 inches being the height for the AoS marking. Now this is doable, but is pushing the limit of the surface area on the front windshield. Obviously the 2" white bar will have to located within the 7 inch height.

regards,
Jack

[Ed Storey]

Official painting guides are just that - guides. Combine what was published during the war with the advice that James gives and you cannot go wrong.

[Jack Geratic]

Came across this arrangement for the jeep's rear side. Dated as October 1942, it may not have been followed as such by 1944?

http://www.rcsigs.ca/index.php/Vehic...als_-_Oct_1942


regards,
Jack

[Patrice DEBUCQUOY]

Hello Jack,

IIRC the Mapple Leaf is yellow for WW2.
The golden one is post war.

Cheers,
Patrice.

[Ed Storey]

Jack, as the war progressed there were changes in vehicle markings. No one set of marking guidelines fits all the vehicles in use. Your best bet is to find a photograph of a particular vehicle which you like and emulate what you see in the photograph.

[BCA]

The modified windshield in post #5 (on jeep CM 4232012) appears to have a shorter lower panel: it may well be an early 21” tall slat grill windshield frame that has been modified with the arched extension. The overall height of the standardized windshield frame is 23”.

[Jack Geratic]

Patrice, Ed, and Brian - gentlemen, thank you for your responses and will take in everything into consideration.

For marking sizes, I think it best I wait until the actual model kit is in my hands. This way I can take into account actual measurements, particularly if the model details are not perfectly scaled.

For the maple leaf, I agree it was yellow when painted by hand. From what I understand (or did I misunderstand?) that when these markings became available in water slide decal format, the leaf does not look plain yellow. From the site https://captainstevens.com/military/mv/mvmarkings/

Provided is a post war example:


Followed by a set of wartime period:


To me, I see a difference between the two examples. Perhaps the WW2 version was not 'metallic gold', but a subdued yellow?

Interestingly, the Canadiansoldiers web site in their Formations study page, there is no mention of yellow, but that gold was chosen for the maple leaf in May of 1940. Of course, when it came to painting, they made do with what they had.


regards,
Jack

[Lynn Eades]

Brian, Re the short screen, the front bumper also appears to have a curved end. Accident damage or a mod. as well?

[David Dunlop]

Can anyone read what is stencilled across the top centre of the front fender? It might also be repeated over the rear wheel well but is a lot longer in both cases than the usual ‘TP XX”.

David

[Jack Geratic]

Found another photo of Worthington and jeep. This one allows comparison of yellows found on the bridge classification and maple leaf - and they clearly look different:




regards,
Jack

[Lynn Eades]

Obviously a quite modified jeep with permanent wooden staunchions running down to the steps and a much sorter than normal (including the early short screen) lower panel. Hard to follow official painting directives when the panel is too short. Do what you think looks best Jack.