Hong Kong bound vehicles diverted to ?

[sapper740]

Two Canadian battalions, the Winnipeg Grenadiers and the Royal Rifles of Canada, left Vancouver, B.C. on Oct. 27, 1941 bound for the British colony of Hong Kong aboard two ships, the New Zealand registered AWATEA and the R.C.N. cruiser PRINCE ROBERT. The two battalions had a total of 212 vehicles which included 104 trucks, 57 universal carriers, 45 motorcycles, and 6 other. There was no room aboard the AWATEA which was designed for only 540 passengers to take on the vehicles so they were shipped a week later aboard the American freighter DON JOSE. The DON JOSE failed to reach Hong Kong before the war started (conveniently?) and was diverted to the Phillipines where the vehicles were used by U.S. forces. We all know the fate of the soldiers, who after a valiant and bloody defence against overwhelming odds surrendered on Christmas day 1941 only to be bayoneted, beheaded, shot, or marched off into horrible conditions as a P.O.W. The question I'm leading up to is: does anybody know of the ultimate fate of the vehicles and is there a comprehensive list of types? I know a lot of you researching military vehicles have located resources for these questions. Any help greatly appreciated!


CHIMO!

[Mark W. Tonner]

Derek;

This is a breakdown of the 212 vehicles:

45x motorcycles
6x Ford cars
57x Universal carriers
63x 15cwt trucks
2x 15cwt water-tanks
39x 3 ton trucks

They all reached Manila on 12 Dec., as to their fate, I can only assume that they were all lost when the Philippines fell to the Japanese.

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Hi Derek;

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that upon reaching Manila, these 212 vehicles were marshalled at Fort McKinley on the outskirts of Manila.

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Hi Derek;

From what I've been able to piece together, the 212 vehicles where more or less wrote off as casualties of war. Both the 1942 Royal Commission investigating the despatch of Canadian troops to Hong Kong and a subsequent post-war Commission/Inquiry (1948?) both, more or less, came to the conclusion that these vehicles fell into the hands of the Imperial Japanese Army with the fall of the Philippines.

Another piece of information I dug up, was that the United States was going to pay for these vehicles once the decision had been made for their use by U.S. forces in the Philippines, with the total value of these vehicles being set at $845,562.00, but there is no record of the monies ever being paid due to the fact of the fall of the Philippines having taken place while this 'deal' was still in the works and therefore, the paperwork being 'lost' (the American Quartermaster General officer concerned becoming a P.O.W.).

I can find no other reference to these vehicles.

Cheers

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
This is a breakdown of the 212 vehicles:

Thanks Mark for the helpful information. I'm nearing the completion of the 1st stage of restoration of my C15 and I'm considering painting it in one of those unit's markings.
I've always had a suspicion that the Captain of the DON JOSE either had orders or took it upon himself to delay the arrival of those vehicles until the outbreak of hostilities so that they may be converted to American use.
Consider this: The AWATEA and the PRINCE ROBERT arrived in Hong Kong after a passage of 20 days, which is no speed record of which to boast. The DON JOSE after 34 days of sailing had still not arrived in Hong Kong, making it the proverbial, "slow boat to China!" Yet it only took the DON JOSE 5 days to make it to Manila from it's course to Hong Kong, assuming the ship turned south on Dec. 7th. I'd like to see the ship's log. Anyway, here's another conspiracy theory for Oliver Stone fans to ponder!



CHIMO!

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by sapper740
I've always had a suspicion that the Captain of the DON JOSE either had orders or took it upon himself to delay the arrival of those vehicles until the outbreak of hostilities so that they may be converted to American use.
Consider this: The AWATEA and the PRINCE ROBERT arrived in Hong Kong after a passage of 20 days, which is no speed record of which to boast. The DON JOSE after 34 days of sailing had still not arrived in Hong Kong, making it the proverbial, "slow boat to China!" Yet it only took the DON JOSE 5 days to make it to Manila from it's course to Hong Kong, assuming the ship turned south on Dec. 7th. I'd like to see the ship's log. Anyway, here's another conspiracy theory for Oliver Stone fans to ponder!

Hi Derek;

Regarding the slowness of the DON JOSE:

- it left Vancouver on 4 November
- original scheduled route was Shanghi - Hong Kong - Manila, which would have put it into Hong Kong on 6 December
- the ship's Captain was given instructions by the U.S.N. to proceed via Honolulu - Manila first
- on route from Honolulu to Manila, she was instructed not to proceed directly, but via Torres Strait and the Molucca Passage, which is well south of the direct route
- after passing the Hawaiian Islands, she was ordered to 'darken ship' and to 'maintain radio silence' west of 160 degrees West

Cheers

[alleramilitaria]

sapper, from what i have uncovered the vehicles were drafted into the US army and used by the us forces on the islands till they were captured, broke down, or blown up. it is one of only 2 confermed casses of the US useing universal carriers durring WWII.
dave

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by alleramilitaria
it is one of only 2 confermed casses of the US useing universal carriers durring WWII

See Carriers in U.S. Service.

H.

[sapper740]

Originally Posted by Mark W. Tonner

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that upon reaching Manila, these 212 vehicles were marshalled at Fort McKinley on the outskirts of Manila.

Mark, where did you get your information about the vehicles stored at Fort McKinley? Was it in a book or from a website and would you mind passing that info on to me? Reason I ask is I've found more info on the freighter Don Jose from a Lloyd's of London report. Which I've copied here:


DON JOSE

D: 12-29-41
YB: 1920
T: unknown
Tn: 10,893
Pos: 14.35 N / 120.55 E
Dr: unknown
Ow: Madrigal & Co.
C: flour, general deck cargo of
Op: Madrigal & Co. lumber
M: unknown
P: motor
A: unarmed
S: at anchor

As you can see from the report the Don Jose was carrying flour and general deck cargo when it was sunk Dec 29, 1941, four days after the defence of Hong Kong collapsed. Did the Don Jose actually anchor or dock in Honolulu and if so did it unload any cargo? It's strange, at least to me that it would take on a cargo of flour (I didn't know they grew wheat there) from the Phillipines. You'd think that the U.S. Army would commandeer all foodstuffs as they planned to hold out as long as they could, remember, Corregidor didn't fall until May 6th. In any event, it's an interesting story and one not without irony. After the fall of the Phillipines, the Japs refloated the Don Jose and towed her to Hong Kong, her original destination. Derek.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by sapper740

Mark, where did you get your information about the vehicles stored at Fort McKinley? Was it in a book or from a website and would you mind passing that info on to me?

Gee Derek, I can't even remember where I put something yesterday , and you want me to find the reference for something I posted here back in December 2005 ...

... I guess this old fart should start writing things down ...

I'll have a look and see what I can find.

Cheers

[sapper740]

Originally Posted by Mark W. Tonner

I'll have a look and see what I can find.

Thanks Mark, any help greatly appreciated. My curiosity was recently piqued when I found a picture of a US Navy 15cwt in an obviously tropical clime. I would ask anyone who has any info regarding this picture, especially where it was taken to please post what they know. I smell an interesting story here and I'm considering an article for ARMY MOTORS may be in the offing. I have a contact in the Phillipines I'm emailing for any info he can dig up regarding the Canadian vehicles. He's a Phillipino Coast Guard officer I met at the 60th anniversary of Iwo Jima held in Fredericksburg, Texas and kept his business card. Derek.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by sapper740

My curiosity was recently piqued when I found a picture of a US Navy 15cwt in an obviously tropical clime. I would ask anyone who has any info regarding this picture, especially where it was taken to please post what they know.

Derek, see the thread CMP in US Navy Service. According to the source the picture was taken in Japanese occupied China, 1945. Plus the Cab 13 was built much later than 1941.

Regards,
Hanno