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Rover Light Armoured Car
I recently acquired a Ford CMP based Armoured Car. This Australian designed body was made in 1941 using local 9mm armour plate and fitted to a 1941 cab12 chassis. Two versions were made, MK1 was fitted to a Ford 158 inch chassis then latter the MK2 fitted to the Ford 134 inch chassis.
The vehicle I have is a Mk1 which has suffered over the last 80 years but it is restorable. Only 40 Mk1 bodies were made. There is very little information available apart from Mike Cecil's Military Profile books, most information on the web has come from this publication. One eastern state museum claims to have one of only 3 left in the world, which is odd as there are at least 4 in W.A. I will update this thread as I proceed and add any other information |
#2
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Wayne,
in the title you mention the name or term Rover. Can you expand on where that came from or what it relates to as you do not mention any Rover connection in the wordage, you have me curious.
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Robin Craig Home of the Maple Leaf Adapter 2 Canadian Mk1 Ferrets Kawasaki KLR250 CFR 95-10908 ex PPCLI Canadair CL70 CFR 58-91588 Armstrong MT500 serial CFR 86-78530 Two Canam 250s Land Rover S3 Commanders Caravan Carawagon 16 GN 07 Trailer Cargo 3/4 T 2WHD 38 GJ 62 |
#3
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Nice find, Wayne!
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Regards, Hanno -------------------------- |
#4
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Naming
Robin,
A series of names were adopted officially for Australian armoured vehicles (except the MG carrier and derivatives). Car, Light Armoured, (Aust) was the Rover. Car, Heavy, (Aust) was the Rhino Car, Scout (Aust) was the Dingo. The Australian Cruiser tank Mk.1 was the Sentinel, and the Mk.3 was the Thunderbolt. I've never found an official explanation as to how the names were arrived at, unlike the post-war SP 25-pdr called Yeramba, where the origin of the name is well documented. The Rover was un-officially known as the Mobile Slit Trench due to the long, narrow open top. Given Wayne's expertise as we have seen it with Wayne's Wonder Bus, etc, I'm looking forward to this restoration thread. This is indeed a rare vehicle, and it will be fantastic to see it properly restored. I'm sure I'll learn a lot more about the Rover and its construction along the way - there is nothing like the experience of dealing with the real thing. Mike Last edited by Mike Cecil; 03-12-20 at 16:39. |
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But it is almost certainly unlikely to have any connection with the UK's Rover Car Company, which is what you were leaning towards, Robin?
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You can help Keep Mapleleafup Up! See Here how you can help, and why you should! |
#6
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Tony and Mike thanks for the replies.
Tony I was by way of exclusion mentioning the Rover Car connection as there was no mention of it, that was my drift. Interesting project and nice once again to see history getting preserved.
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Robin Craig Home of the Maple Leaf Adapter 2 Canadian Mk1 Ferrets Kawasaki KLR250 CFR 95-10908 ex PPCLI Canadair CL70 CFR 58-91588 Armstrong MT500 serial CFR 86-78530 Two Canam 250s Land Rover S3 Commanders Caravan Carawagon 16 GN 07 Trailer Cargo 3/4 T 2WHD 38 GJ 62 |
#7
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Early V hull, with some input by Pininfarina?
Great find Wayne.
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Bluebell Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991 Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6. Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6 Jeep Mb #135668 So many questions.... |
#8
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update
As mentioned, nothing to do with Rover Car Company but may have been some design influence on the Rover P5B...
Went and had a look at 4 other Rovers on the weekend for research purposes. Came home with some hatches, a bonnet and armour wheel arches. Now have a better understanding of the changes between long and short wheelbase variants. Bonnet is very crude but effective design, minus the farmers circle cut out. |
#9
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Wayne, you now at least have a pattern "in hand".
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Bluebell Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991 Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6. Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6 Jeep Mb #135668 So many questions.... |
#10
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update
Laser cut plate to fill the holes.
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#11
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photo archive
I ordered a photo in hi res of this Rover, from the Australian War Memorial Collection.
The caption says Puckapunyal in Victoria, but markings are 1st Armoured in WA and I think the photo was taken at Northam, judging but the bushland. |
#12
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2 Armd Bde Recce Sqn
Hi Wayne,
The markings are 1 Armd Div (formation) and what looks like 65 for the Unit, which would be 2nd Armoured Brigade Reconnaissance Squadron of 2nd Armd Brigade. Those markings, both Formation, Unit, and the Recce Sqn inverted triangle just visible above the unit marking, were first promulgated in March 1942. That unit, 2 Armd Bde Recce Sqn, was effectively disbanded on 8 November 1942 when it morphed into B Squadron, 2/4th Armoured Regiment, and switched to tanks. At the time, the unit was still in the Narrabri-Gunnedah area of NSW, having moved there from Puckapunyal, Victoria, in July. The unit sign '65' was used by the unit from March 1942 until November 1942, but had been disbanded by the time elements of the Division moved to Western Australia in 1943. No other unit was listed with the '65' code for 1st Armd Division. I would therefore suggest that the image, if taken at Puckapunyal - and it certainly matches the terrain - was taken between March and July 1942. If it was taken in NSW, which I doubt, then sometime between July and November. Mike Last edited by Mike Cecil; 15-12-20 at 20:26. |
#13
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Rover
Thanks for the info Mike. One photo below shows markings on the rear of a Mk1 C Squadron? Unit signs are too far gone to even guess at.
I will try to find Rover photos from either Northam or Moora camps using the State Library as a source. The other shows repairs to cracks in the hull, you mentioned in Military Profiles that several hulls were rejected because of cracks. Someone welded and patched this hull, not to subtle either. |
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Yes, a C Squadron symbol of a circle.
2/11th Aust Armd Car Regt would be a pretty safe bet: located at Mingenew, WA from late December 1942. Consisted of HQ Sqn, and A, B and C Sqns. Good luck with the photo hunt. Mike |
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hull repairs
Been going over the hull to fit new armour plate, have noticed that many of the original welds have let go.
Many of the boxes and internal fittings welded to the AAP have separated over the years. Anyone who has welded armour plate knows it requires prep work and knowledge of stress and tension. I am welding in 5, 8, and 9mm mild steel plate to fill the holes. 9mm AAP is no longer available. Will be using a MIG and pre heating to do the welds and grinding the welds flush. The Nickle weld will be reproduced by a stick welder later. |
#16
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welding your slit trench
Looks good! When you get closer to fabricating larger missing pieces, bear in mind the workshop conditions when these 40 hulls were manufactured. Was there a fully dedicated clean-sheet production line, or were these welded up on jigs on an open stretch of the factory floor? Were the workers the most highly skilled men in the entire factory, or were they the next shift available? Are there signs of careful, precise and repeatable measurements and precision controlled cutters, or more scribe a line and grind down to it?
I mention this degree of imprecision thinking about a story from when DEW Industries in Canada graciously restored a WW1 US light tank which ended its service life in the nascent Canadian Armoured Corps. Don Dingwall was at DEW and he had to laughingly explain to the modern shop workers just how primitive the shops were in 1918-19. Of course nothing would be square or perfect. The workmen were used to making locomotives, which only had a few truly standardized parts.
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Terry Warner - 74-????? M151A2 - 70-08876 M38A1 - 53-71233 M100CDN trailer Beware! The Green Disease walks among us! |
#17
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hull repairs
Finished the upper sections today. Looks much better but still the ugliest truck ever. I will tackle the hatches and fittings when time allows.
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#18
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Ugliest truck ever? Maybe just ahead of its time
Wayne, it looks to me like the Rover inspired Elon Musk in the design of Tesla's new Cybertruck.
Brian
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1942 Willys MB Jeep 505 contract 1943 C8A HUP |
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I would suggest Tesla’s Cybertruck is an insult to the Rover.
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1943 Willys MB Willys Trailer 1941 Fordson WOT 2H 1941 Fordson WOT 2H (Unrestored) 194? Fordson WOT 2D (Unrestored) 1939 Ford 1 ton utility (Undergoing restoration) 1940 Ford 1 ton utility (Unrestored) 1941 Ford 1 ton utility (Unrestored) BSA folding bicycle BSA folding bicycle 1941 Ford/Marmon Herrington 3A gun tractor 1941 Ford/Marmon Herrington 3 gun tractor (Unrestored) 1941 Diamond T 969 (Unrestored) Wiles Junior Cooker x 2 |
#20
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The original MRAP??
Great job, Wayne: very unusual vehicle and, as it's a LWB Mk.1, must be close to the only survivor - certainly the only one under restoration? When does Mr Sandblaster arrive to change the patina? Mike |
#21
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Hi Mike,
I will finish off the hatches next and then the plates at the bottom that rusted away during its time in the salt lakes at Nungarrin. Plan is to do a bit here and there as the paying jobs keep getting priority. |
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