military vehicles in Northern Ireland

[Les Freathy]

I hope this will turn out to be an interesting thread, plenty of choice if we start from 1969 to the present time. It could if any one has info prior to this date be used to add additional items.
A couple of typical armourd landrovers to start the rover 88 lightweight and a LWB 109

[Les Freathy]

photo2

[fv1620]

What do you make of this one?

[Les Freathy]

Good good, we are up and running heres a couple more logs for the fire
MK2 ferret, it must be early 1970s as little protectionhas been provided at this stage

[Les Freathy]

Here we have a Saracen 6x6 with better protection inlcuding the heavy frame built for clearing barracades
Les

[fv1620]

Well what do you make of this one?

[fv1620]

Mark thank you for your interest, well you're the only one with the courage to venture in. Actually I do know, in some detail, the histories of these vehicles. I put them up in the hope of stirring up some interest & comment.

The Pig is actually not an Army one it is a Police vehicle. It's a FV1609 of which there were 20 built in 1956. When the troop trials ended in 1958, 10 were passed to the Ministry of Home Affairs to be issued to the RUC. It was issued with its Belfast civilian no 2996 OI which is what is currently registered on the roads here.

In 1958 the FV1611 & FV1612 started production. But the FV1609 although armoured had no armour on the rear roof, just canvas over hoops. The RUC wanted to emulate the army pigs & an armoured roof was constructed for them in 1960 by a local engineering firm (Belfast Tool & Gauge).

Although they were green, in 1962 they were painted Light Admiralty Grey to match the range of locally made Commer armoured vehicles (APCs, water cannon, prison vans). But in 1963 were painted green using Rustoleum anti-rust paint. This equates to a satin finish almost dark Brunswick Green, quite different from any green used by the Army.

There are nearly 60 diffrences between the RUC ones & a standard Army Mk 1 Pig. In the photo it shows:
The visors are quite different & overlapping the body & have visions slits rather than the No.17 periscope.
The wing lockers don't cover the wheel arches fully.
The headlight covers are rounded not square.
The pistol ports in the sides are rudimentary & drop fully down. The Army ones only open 2/3 the way down.
The armoured rear roof is welded on with a seam around the edge.
Fixed door handles.
Not too easy to see but the antenna mounts are more rudimentary.
And a favourite for RUC vehicles was the foglight at the front


The Shorland is actually a Mark 1 & was issued to the RUC as AOI 4054 in 1969. It is bit of a leg pull because it has been painted Light Admiralty Grey for a TV film about the riots in August 1969. But this is incorrect RUC Shorlands were not painted grey they were Rustoleum Green.

Anyway here is another, but it is not quite as it might seem.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by fv1620
What do you make of this one?

Is that the Pig seen at some shows in south of England last year in grey primer paint? Looks like you have the top coat on now.

:

[fv1620]

Postwar British AFVs should be painted in Dark Admiralty Grey primer. The finish for this Pig was Light Admiralty Grey. This was the colour that I found inside the vehicle & is a very close match. I know that the 10 Humbers used by the RUC were painted this colour in 1962. This was to match the fleet of Commer armoured cars.



According to the records in 1963 the colour was changed to "olive drab". Now I don't know if this was genuinely olive drab or some clerks word for an army green. I have it documented that in 1969 they were definitely painted in a Rustoleum Green. It has been impossible to find what shades of Rustoleum were around in the 1960s.

Colour pictures I have vary with the degree of sunlight, its angle & the degree of wetness, let alone the individualities of the printers.

So the colour it was in this season gone was only a provisional green but a colour chosen to be quite diffrent from a colour used by the British Army. Besides it was very cheap & I had a lot of it.

Unfortunately the pig suffered a major rebuilt when it was taken over by the Army in 1970. So matching the original green has been a problem. However I have been able to cleanly lift a 4 inch patch of paint off an ex-RUC Shorland. This reveals the proper paint to be a satin, in a dark almost Brunswick Green.

I have large quantities of gloss Brunswick Green & intend to blend it to the correct colour. The problem is to get it to a satin finish. I have been told that adding French chalk, talcum powder etc will do this. But nobody that offered this advice has done it. So I don't know the quatities needed nor know how it will effect the strength of the paint etc.

The reason for moving on from grey was that I got somewhat depressed that the vehicle was largely ignored at MV shows. Because it was not green it was not in general taken seriously. I remember I was at a show next to a standard Mk2 Army pig. Visitors ignored the display information by my vehicle & were looking all over the green one & said "wow this is a Belfast one". Well mine has the registration still on it 2996 OI which means it was registered in Belfast in 1958.

[Les Freathy]

Here,s a Pig that was around the rally circuit a few years back, is it still about

[Les Freathy]

And prior to 1969 many were in Germany as seen here near Berlin

[Les Freathy]

a couple more pigs 1 early times in NI note lack of protestion on the pig
The flying pig

[Les Freathy]

flying pig

[Neil Ashley]

Some more pictures of Northern Ireland Pigs.

[Neil Ashley]

Rear of same.

[Neil Ashley]

Flying Pig.

[Neil Ashley]

Riot control Pig?

[fv1620]

Neil

I can't get pics no 1 & 5 to load. I get the top 10% of them. Did the same yesterday thought it was me, but doing the same today.

In pic no4 whats that small thing on the front of the nearside wing covered in XPM?

Do you happen to have a note of the BK registrations at all? Just to see if I have an history on them or photos in an earlier role?

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by fv1620
I can't get pics no 1 & 5 to load. I get the top 10% of them. Did the same yesterday thought it was me, but doing the same today.

Klive,

Doing the same for me on 1 & 5, today and last night.

Richard

[fv1620]

Nobody has ventured an opinion on the Shorland:


I know it is very difficult so say anything that appears in the least bit critical as it may offend the owner. Well I am the owner of this ex British Army Shorland seen above & I feel free to be able to criticise!

The most striking feature is that is painted in high gloss Deep Bronze Green but with disruptive matt black. When I first showed this vehicle 17 years ago I frequently had this defect pointed out to me. The criticism was that it would never have been painted like that. Well I have never seen another British Army vehicle painted in this manner & I have a large number of documents relating to painting of vehicles & the Shorland restoration seems to be at odds with all of this.

However it is painted exactly as I found the paint underneath layers of IRR NATO Green paint. The black markings are within half an inch of where they were originally.

This was originally a police vehicle, a Mk 1 Shorland built in 1965 & issued to the RUC in 1966 with the registration 3547PZ. It was painted satin finish "Rustoleum Green".

In 1970 it was withdrawn from police service & was issued the Ulster Defence Regiment of the British Army with the registration 27BT68. At that stage it was liberally coated with Deep Bronze Green (including the road springs). It then acquired disruptive matt black, then over the years successive layers of IRR NATO Green paint. It was struck off in 1977.

Of the 16 Shorlands originally issued to the RUC only two survive. Mine & that one incorrectly painted grey seen earlier. The armour from most of these was recycled by Shorts to make new Shorlands.

[Neil Ashley]

Clive

The only picture I cannot get to display is the final one. I asked Geof to remove it as it was a duplication.

The thing on the wing covered with weld mesh is a mirror.

Two of these vehicles survive in Melksham at a well known Land Rover supplier, slowly returning to nature.

You can have the original negatives next time I see you, or let me know if you are passing County Hall.

[fv1620]

Neil

The last picture has now gone but pic no.1 just shows the top part of the roof of a building. There is an edit button so you can retrospectively edit your own posts & remove stuff if you want.

The thing on the wing I meant wasn't those two boxes for the wing mirrors. But that small XPM covered thing on the wing next to the bonnet, are you saying that's some sort of mirror?

The County Hall, sounds like you are the new sherif?

[Neil Ashley]

Clive

I see what you mean now.

These pictures were taken about ten years ago so I can only surmise now. A good guess would be a siren of some kind?

[Les Freathy]

Not northern Ireland but as pigs are running here this one is from 1963 and is 9th independant parachute SQN at Famagusta Cyprus
Les

[fv1620]

Les. Any excuse to see a pig particularly a Mk 1 is very welcome.

Question time:

1. This FV1612 has something wrong about it, any takers?

2. And where did this one end up after it was struck off on 24/2/83?

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by fv1620
Question time:

1. This FV1612 has something wrong about it, any takers?

2. And where did this one end up after it was struck off on 24/2/83?

Clive,

Q1/ As laden weight is more like 5.8 tonnes, my guess is the number on bridge plate is wrong.

Q2/ Can only guess that it ended up on a range, bottom of sea, in your back garden, etc.

Richard

[fv1620]

Richard

Q1. Yes spot on should be '6'

Q2. Hint, it went underground.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by fv1620
Q2. Hint, it went underground.

Clive,

???????? Australia ?? or maybe it was buried, why? contaminated perhaps.

Ah, I know, it fell down an old mineshaft.


Richard

[fv1620]

Richard

Mine shaft was quite close.

At one time it was in The Grange Cavern Museum, Clwyd, North Wales about 20 years ago.

The mine was 100 ft below the surface & was mined out in early 1800s. It was all fun & spooky being down there, but it was so damp. A disaterous idea to store vehicles in such an environment. They had a number of interesting vehicles including a Hornet even.

[fv1620]

What do people make of this then?