22 Set on Handcart

[cletrac (RIP)]

I found a manual online for the 22 set on handcart. It's quite an interesting looking setup. Imagine dragging that up the beach in Normandy or where ever.

[Ron Pier]

Yes but far better than carrying it and it's all contained in one hit. Not like the film for setting up the 11 set ground station where one bloke was running back and forth with different bits of kit.
I go back to my observation of us now, with a mobile phone, smaller than a fag packet with which we can talk to anyone around the world. How technology has moved in 75 years. Ron

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by Ron Pier

I go back to my observation of us now, with a mobile phone, smaller than a fag packet with which we can talk to anyone around the world. How technology has moved in 75 years. Ron

That observation omits the small matter of the fixed infrastructure required, especially the cell towers at quite small intervals. (grin)

[cletrac (RIP)]

When I see pictures of an 11 set in the Western Desert with no high output power supply and 3 to 5 miles range, I wonder who the hell they're talking to!

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

I don't know about y'all, but if reliable information could be had for those 'baby carriages' sufficient to reproduce one or two, I'm in. Have 22 set ready to install...

[cletrac (RIP)]

Bruce, it seems I stirred up some interest here. One of those units would be neat to have. Here's the whole manual and there's even a few dimensions. Note on one page that you could operate it on the beach while submerged!

[sapper740]

I wonder if they ever used this cart or one similar for the 19 set? I presently have the Bags, Aerial and Case, F rod along with all the other ancillary kit for the 19 set and it doesn't look to be too difficult a build to put together a replica handcart.

CHIMO! Derek

[Bruce MacMillan]

Originally Posted by sapper740

I wonder if they ever used this cart or one similar for the 19 set? I
CHIMO! Derek

Yes, it was developed for Operation Rutter, the prelude to the actual Dieppe landing. RCCS modified a "baby carriage" cable layer to provide a portable ws19 HF station. 2nd Div RCCS ran these up and down hill and dale in southern England practising setup, netting, etc. During Operation Jubilee Brigadier Southam, C.O. of 6th Brigade, complained that a tank had run over his "baby carriage" and he had no wireless.

Probably used on D-Day as well.

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by cletrac

I found a manual online for the 22 set on handcart. It's quite an interesting looking setup. Imagine dragging that up the beach in Normandy or where ever.

There was also a WS22 sled station for arctic use (it may have used the "animal pack" carriers with a standard issue sled). The annoying part of this is that there were some mysterious items stuck on the roof of the outbuildings at a local surplus store (long gone) that I didn't recognise as the sleds until long after the place had closed.

I've seen the straw-lined battery jackets for cold weather operations. There was also an insulating jacket to fit the WS18 series sets; this required the hoop and belt supports to be cut off, and the instructions noted that after performing this modification "the set could no longer be worn". Presumably intended for sled or vehicle applications?

Chris.

[cletrac (RIP)]

Here's the link to the handcarts manual
It looks to me like they used copper plumbing 1/2" tees and elbows and soldered everything together. There's no way to screw it together.

[Grant Bowker]

I have no proof of the following but....rather than plumbing, think bicycle frame assembly - thin wall steel tube brazed using stamped or cast fitting lugs. It would look similar to the suggested plumbing assembly but be stonger per unit weight and stiffer, more abuse resistant, probably cheaper too.

[Ron Pier]

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

I have no proof of the following but....rather than plumbing, think bicycle frame assembly - thin wall steel tube brazed using stamped or cast fitting lugs. It would look similar to the suggested plumbing assembly but be stonger per unit weight and stiffer, more abuse resistant, probably cheaper too.

I was thinking the same thing for those days. A copper hand card would be an easier way to reproduce one now. But it would have had to be a tough cart for hauling through the sand or rough terrain. Ron

[cletrac (RIP)]

I blew up the picture and you can tell it's soldered copper pipes (probably 3/4")
The tires would be 16" OD.
The text and cart pictures are off a D-Day site.
The manual is for a No1 MkIII and these pics are NoI MKIV.

[Chris Suslowicz]

I've seen a real one, and I think it's 1" or larger steel tube.

(If they were copper the scrap dealers would have ensured that every single one would have been traced and melted down by now.)

I'm fairly sure the museum of technology in Milton Keynes (UK) has got an original.
Must have a visit some time.

(Apparently the tyres are an odd size and "difficult"; you have been warned.)

:-)>

[cletrac (RIP)]

Chris, in that closeup it's definitely soldered together and by someone who wasn't very good at it. You wouldn't even try to use solder with steel pipes. And where would you get those fittings in steel?
I blew up another of those pics and that plug for the microphone has a 1" diameter end. It's the same size as the outside of the fittings and 3/4" copper fittings are 1" outside diameter.

[Ron Pier]

I have no intention of building one of these carts, but I am intrigued now as to how they were built. Did they actually have our everyday copper plumbing fittings back then? My personal guess is that the fittings were cast or forged in steel and the whole thing brazed together with steel tube, as per a motorcycle frame. No need to clean up the braze splatter on such a utilitarian item. We won't know for sure of course until one of us sees a real one.
Likewise I'd like to no the tyre size. I'd guess they are 19" wheels and maybe the same size tyres as a Flea which are hard to find 2.75 x 19????

Ron

[cletrac (RIP)]

I used Photoshop and cropped the picture to the size of the image. Then I made it 10 inches long and printed it. The cart is now 1/8" to the inch.
I took front and rear measurements and averaged them to allow for perspective.
The wheels are 12" diameter.
The tire OD is 15"
From the ground to the equipment tray is 21"
The handles stick out 16 1/2 inches and are 7 1/2" deep.
The pipes are just over 3/4"

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by cletrac

Chris, in that closeup it's definitely soldered together and by someone who wasn't very good at it. You wouldn't even try to use solder with steel pipes. And where would you get those fittings in steel?
I blew up another of those pics and that plug for the microphone has a 1" diameter end. It's the same size as the outside of the fittings and 3/4" copper fittings are 1" outside diameter.

Unless it's a prototype I cannot imagine them using copper tube. It would be too soft and also copper was in short supply.

My guess is that it's 3/4" or 1" steel conduit, which has fittings that look very much like the ones pictured, and they may have soldered the joints later to prevent things working loose.

It could also be brazed or even gas welded.

We need to find an original and test it with a magnet. :-)>

Chris.

[cletrac (RIP)]

In that picture of the joints it's definitely solder.
Brazing will never look like that.
In 4 feet you've got 4 uprights so strength wouldn't be an issue.
That could be a prototype or maybe they wanted copper's corrosion resistance.
12" x 1 1/2" or 12" x 2" are common bike sizes.