WD Interior Lamps

Richard Farrant · #1 22-09-06, 01:15

I have small number of nos British issue Interior Lamps, part no. LV6 / MT3 WD/TL4 for sale. They are mainly used in WW2 era British tanks and armoured cars. Still sealed in their WD packaging, unpacked a sample and in perfect condition, see photo.

Please PM me if you are interested.

Richard

Jared Archibald · #2 23-09-06, 02:12

G'day Richard,

your posting of these lamps has finally pushed me to act and register on MLU rather than just being a lurker.

Are these lamps standard equipment in Matildas?

I have a Matilda project which is basically bare inside so I am looking for all sorts of interior pieces. I have no parts manuals so am unable to check pictures, part numbers etc.

What are you after for the lamps? Send me a PM if you like.

Jared

Bob Moseley (RIP) · #3 25-09-06, 00:39

Hi Jared
It's about time you stopped lurking and came out.
Regards
Bob

Neil Ashley · #4 25-09-06, 09:05

Jared

There is another pattern with a push/pull knob rather than the dimmer switch type.

I always believe these to be the earlier pattern but I will leave this for others to comment on.

The dimmer switch pattern were certainly a round from mid war onwards, and are still in use today.

Richard Farrant · #5 25-09-06, 22:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Neil Ashley

The dimmer switch pattern were certainly a round from mid war onwards, and are still in use today.

Hi Neil,

I sent Jared a PM as I do not have a Matilda book to check out what was fitted, a friend in NSW has a restored one so will get hold of him.

The lamps I have for sale are made by GEC, there was an alternative with same part number by Lucas, they were certainly fitted to Cromwell tanks.

Richard

Jared Archibald · #6 26-09-06, 11:15

G'day Neil and Richard,

This is starting to get interesting.

If I understand correctly from what you both have said, there are two types of interior lights for British AFVs. An adjustable-dimmer type light, and an on-off type light.

Richard, I am assuming that yours are the dimmer types. Is the control on the light itself or is the controller in the circuit and it controls all lights on the same wire?

Neil, is it possible to post an image of the on-off type. I have not seen either (apart from Richard's pic) and am interested to see what they look like.

In the small amount of Matilda info I have, it mentions that there are "six festoon lamps" in the hull and three in the turret.
Do either of the previously mentioned interior lamps correspond to a "festoon lamp".

Jared

Ian Pullen · #7 26-09-06, 15:05

Jared, good to see that up at Humpty Doo they actually have electricity as well as computers........
It's good to see you are going to start on the Matilda.
Welcome aboard.

Richard Farrant · #8 26-09-06, 22:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Jared Archibald
.

Richard, I am assuming that yours are the dimmer types. Is the control on the light itself or is the controller in the circuit and it controls all lights on the same wire?

In the small amount of Matilda info I have, it mentions that there are "six festoon lamps" in the hull and three in the turret.
Do either of the previously mentioned interior lamps correspond to a "festoon lamp".

Jared,

Mine are dimmer type, all controlled by lever, off and progressively on.

Festoon lamps......now that has clicked my mind. I recently did the electrical work on the restoration of a 1936 Vickers light tank (ex-Aussie as it happens). According to the wiring diagram that had festoon lamps. On investigation, they were standard Lucas items as used on Bentley car dashboards, among others. Also, on inspecting the inside of a WW1 Mark IV tank hull last year, I spotted a row of them inside, only the bases though. So the design is / was old.

If you look at the attached photo of the Vickers instrument panel, one of the lamps is at the top right. The cylindrical part contains the bulb and is switched on by turning it, when the window comes around the light comes on. I feel sure the Matilda could have had the same lamps, ...............unless someone knows different

Richard

Neil Ashley · #9 27-09-06, 08:52

Jared

The attached picture is from the Vocabulary of Army Ordnance Stores Section LV6 - MT3.

It lists two types of interior light in use in 1943.

The one pictured is the type I mentioned. The other type not pictured may be Richards dimmer model. Unfortunately part numbers have changed since the war so it does not correspond with Richards post-war number.

rwhovey · #10 28-09-06, 03:09

Hello,

I would like to purchase some of the lamps as I will be starting to restoring a Daimler A/C in summer 2007.

Randy

Jared Archibald · #11 28-09-06, 14:48

Firstly, a big g'day to Bob and Ian - thanks for the welcome. We usually have electricity in our area - the fruit bats are the main cause of darkness......they land on the insulators, cause an explosion, cooked bat, and darkness in the bush.

MLU is a great resource and it is even better when you are learning info that you had no idea you even wanted to know. I would never had guessed there were at least three different types of interior lights for WW11 British AFVs.

Richard - thanks for the image of the Vickers Light Tank dashboard. Is this type of light difficult to obtain in the UK? You mention that they were used on Bentleys and other cars. They sound as though they were reasonably commonly used in their day. Another query with the dash, is that two speedos in the right lower corner or is one a tacho (and they both just happen to go to 40)?

Neil - thanks for the image of the parts manual page. It all adds to the bank of information on these lights.

Jared

Richard Farrant · #12 28-09-06, 21:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Jared Archibald

Richard - thanks for the image of the Vickers Light Tank dashboard. Is this type of light difficult to obtain in the UK? You mention that they were used on Bentleys and other cars. They sound as though they were reasonably commonly used in their day. Another query with the dash, is that two speedos in the right lower corner or is one a tacho (and they both just happen to go to 40)?

Jared,
The Lucas festoon lamp is very sought after in vintage car circles, the ones used on this tank were reconditioned, probably better than new, you would not wish to know how much. Take a look at this webpage, at bottom right hand;
www.jimpike.co.uk/id13.html

Re. the dash in my photo, the right hand clock is a tacho, one missing above was the water temp. guage, which was since fitted.

Still cannot confirm whether this was the lamp used in the Matilda, but I cannot find my friends email address to check out what was in his.

Richard

Richard Farrant · #13 28-09-06, 21:41

Quote:

Originally posted by rwhovey
Hello,

I would like to purchase some of the lamps as I will be starting to restoring a Daimler A/C in summer 2007.

Randy,

I will send you a PM regarding this.

Richard

Neil Ashley · #14 29-09-06, 08:54

Jared

Item number 593 on this web site looks similar to Richards lamp if nothing else was available.

www.vintagesupplies.com

I would be very supprised if they were still using this pattern on Matida 2 other than as a dash light. This is realy a pre-war civilian item before they standardized AFV patterns.

Tony Smith · #15 29-09-06, 09:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Richard Farrant
Still cannot confirm whether this was the lamp used in the Matilda, but I cannot find my friends email address to check out what was in his.

Richard

Richard, I can pop around to him when I get a chance to photograph what's fitted.

Richard Farrant · #16 29-09-06, 23:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Tony Smith
Richard, I can pop around to him when I get a chance to photograph what's fitted.

Tony,

You have guessed who I meant

Just down the hill from Lithgow, in apple country.

Richard

Jared Archibald · #17 30-09-06, 00:12

Tony,

thanks for the offer of taking some pics - it will be interesting to see what style or type was used.

Jared

Tony Smith · #18 19-10-06, 17:41

Richard's lamps do not appear to be the type fitted in the Matilda. This is a pic of the three lamps on the roof of the Turret:

Tony Smith · #19 19-10-06, 17:43

A close up of the style of Matilda lamp:

Neil Ashley · #20 19-10-06, 18:42

These are standard dash board lights found on many British war-time soft-skins and AFV's. My Humber MkIV had one on the dash.

As previously said, Richards pattern were a pre-war commercal design which were probably deleated from use very earlly if not pre-war.

I am supprised to see these dash lights being used for this purpose. It would be usefull to have a look in the manual.

Richard Farrant · #21 19-10-06, 21:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Tony Smith
Richard's lamps do not appear to be the type fitted in the Matilda. This is a pic of the three lamps on the roof of the Turret:

Tony,

Thanks for looking at the Matilda, how was Peter?

From the view of the turret roof, I am inclined to think that these lamps fitted are not the originals. As Neil points out, they are really dash lamps, as on the Humber armoured car, etc. Where these lamps are fitted in the turret, I can see adaptor plates which would be about the same length and width of the commercial Lucas festoon lamp and I am guessing that these have been substituted, not necessarily on restoration, but maybe when in service.

Pity I do not have a Matilda manual or parts book to check out.

Richard

tankbarrell · #22 20-10-06, 09:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Richard Farrant

Pity I do not have a Matilda manual or parts book to check out.

Richard [/B]

I do have a manual and whilst it does not show a picture of the lamps as such, it refers to them as festoon lamps and gives a diagramatical representation of them that looks very like the Vickers panel lamp. Hardly conclusive but the best I can do!

Adrian Barrell

tankbarrell · #23 20-10-06, 10:21

Upon further research, the manual lists the interior lamps as TL2. I have one of the lamps as shown in Tonys pictures of the Matilda and it is marked as TL2A. So perhaps they are correct after all......Tony, is that Peter Rays?

Adrian Barrell

Richard Farrant · #24 20-10-06, 12:45

Quote:

Originally posted by tankbarrell
Upon further research, the manual lists the interior lamps as TL2. I have one of the lamps as shown in Tonys pictures of the Matilda and it is marked as TL2A. So perhaps they are correct after all......Tony, is that Peter Rays?

Adrian,

Thanks for the confirmation from the manual. We now know what is correct for a Matilda. Not sure of the difference between a TL2 and TL2A, but I have a MT3 Vocab and it shows the former with mounting bracket as in Peter's Matilda, probably only a detail difference such as different bracket.

Richard