MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > MILITARY VEHICLES > The Carrier Forum

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-02-11, 13:04
kevin powles's Avatar
kevin powles kevin powles is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 1,965
Default Convoy Axle Light

Has anyone got genuine info regarding the carrier convoy tail axle light, I guess the Canadian carriers and british carriers used different types of lamp fittings, How were these fittings attached to the inside of the rear tool plates on a Mk1?. I have attached a picture of the type used on a British carrier and have one such lamp.
Attached Thumbnails
securedownload.jpg  
__________________
2pdr Tank Hunter Universal Carrier 1942 registered 11/11/2008.
3" Mortar Universal Carrier 1943 registered 06/06/2009.
1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, Caunter camo.
1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, light stone.
10 cwt wartime mortar trailer.
1943 Mk2 Daimler Dingo.
1943 Willys MB.
1936 Vickers MG carrier No1 Mk1 CMM 985.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-02-11, 14:59
RichardT10829's Avatar
RichardT10829 RichardT10829 is offline
Richard Harrison
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cullercoats Newcastle Upon Tyne United Kingdom
Posts: 3,061
Default

they bolt onto the tool plate with a bracket....that chap who is selling all the carrier stuff has a mk2 setup for sale he has a picture of the unit. i think they mounted the same on the mk1 and mk2 (on the tool plate) but were different where the rear light mounted....hope this helps.

if i recall it appeared to be two bolts through the tool plate into the mount for the lamp.
__________________
is mos redintegro

__5th Div___46th Div__
1942 Ford Universal Carrier No.3 MkI*
Lower Hull No. 10131
War Department CT54508 (SOLD)
1944 Ford Universal Carrier MkII* (under restoration).
1944 Morris C8 radio body (under restoration).
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-02-11, 15:52
Jordan Baker's Avatar
Jordan Baker Jordan Baker is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,040
Default

Here are the pics of a Cnd one. Bruce Parker and I came to the conclusion that these may have been added at some point late in the Mk1* production or done as an "add on" sometime after.

Pics are from the ebay auction.
Attached Thumbnails
convoylamp01.jpg   convoylamp02.jpg   convoylamp03.jpg  
__________________
Jordan Baker
RHLI Museum,
Otter LRC
C15A-Wire3, 1944
Willys MB, 1942
10cwt Canadian trailer
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-02-11, 16:23
kevin powles's Avatar
kevin powles kevin powles is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 1,965
Default

hi, That ebay one shows the goose neck and 3/4" conduit which is correct, but is that a true canadian carrier light fitting?. Anyone got any other images of the correct canadian type?.

kev.
__________________
2pdr Tank Hunter Universal Carrier 1942 registered 11/11/2008.
3" Mortar Universal Carrier 1943 registered 06/06/2009.
1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, Caunter camo.
1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, light stone.
10 cwt wartime mortar trailer.
1943 Mk2 Daimler Dingo.
1943 Willys MB.
1936 Vickers MG carrier No1 Mk1 CMM 985.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-02-11, 16:29
RichardT10829's Avatar
RichardT10829 RichardT10829 is offline
Richard Harrison
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cullercoats Newcastle Upon Tyne United Kingdom
Posts: 3,061
Default

jordan do you reckon that fitting on the end is original ? it kinda looks household but having never seen one i cant say yey or ney ?

here is the images from the parts catalogue pages 352 and 353

Mk1*



Mk2*

__________________
is mos redintegro

__5th Div___46th Div__
1942 Ford Universal Carrier No.3 MkI*
Lower Hull No. 10131
War Department CT54508 (SOLD)
1944 Ford Universal Carrier MkII* (under restoration).
1944 Morris C8 radio body (under restoration).

Last edited by RichardT10829; 12-02-11 at 16:55.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-02-11, 17:38
Jordan Baker's Avatar
Jordan Baker Jordan Baker is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,040
Default

Your last picture you posted shows this part. The part # ends with a "B" so there was probably more then one kind of light socket. This picture looks more like the CMP rear diff light. But again that would make sense as the CMP trucks moved away from the rubber housing to metal housings for the tail lights.

As for the light socekt. Yes it looks original. The socket is the same style as my original tail lamp.
Attached Thumbnails
DSCF2156.jpg  
__________________
Jordan Baker
RHLI Museum,
Otter LRC
C15A-Wire3, 1944
Willys MB, 1942
10cwt Canadian trailer
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-02-11, 20:26
Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
Bluebell
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 5,536
Default Part B-WD-AFI

I have one stamped with the "B-WD-AFI" which is the same as one in your picture Kevin, but it is different.
Attached Thumbnails
Blackout light L-WD-AFI 001.jpg   Blackout light L-WD-AFI 002.jpg   Blackout light L-WD-AFI 003.jpg  
__________________
Bluebell

Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6
Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-02-11, 21:10
Richard Farrant's Avatar
Richard Farrant Richard Farrant is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kent, England
Posts: 3,639
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Eades View Post
I have one stamped with the "B-WD-AFI" which is the same as one in your picture Kevin, but it is different.
Yours is the Butler lamp and Kevin's parts list is showing a Lucas, like a lot of British wartime vehicles, they could have either makes when in service ( same with head, side and tail lamps).
__________________
Richard

1943 Bedford QLD lorry - 1941 BSA WM20 m/cycle - 1943 Daimler Scout Car Mk2
Member of MVT, IMPS, MVG of NSW, KVE and AMVCS
KVE President & KVE News Editor
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-02-11, 21:37
Lynn Eades Lynn Eades is offline
Bluebell
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 5,536
Default Bulbholder

I think the bulb holder in Jordans middle picture is the same as the one in the early rubber tail light.
__________________
Bluebell

Carrier Armoured O.P. No1 Mk3 W. T84991
Carrier Bren No2.Mk.I. NewZealand Railways. NZR.6.
Dodge WC55. 37mm Gun Motor Carriage M6
Jeep Mb #135668
So many questions....
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 13-02-11, 17:12
kevin powles's Avatar
kevin powles kevin powles is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 1,965
Default convoy axle light

Hi, From the pictures richard has supplied, CO1UC 100145 BODY CONVOY LAMP. Here are some. So this is what the canadian lens end cover looks like.
Attached Thumbnails
072304-131.jpg  
__________________
2pdr Tank Hunter Universal Carrier 1942 registered 11/11/2008.
3" Mortar Universal Carrier 1943 registered 06/06/2009.
1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, Caunter camo.
1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, light stone.
10 cwt wartime mortar trailer.
1943 Mk2 Daimler Dingo.
1943 Willys MB.
1936 Vickers MG carrier No1 Mk1 CMM 985.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 13-02-11, 17:25
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,538
Default

I have had a couple of the rear plates over the years with the rear convoy lamp installed. They both had the metal lamps like Kevin shows. They were from mid production mk1 carriers.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 13-02-11, 17:35
RichardT10829's Avatar
RichardT10829 RichardT10829 is offline
Richard Harrison
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cullercoats Newcastle Upon Tyne United Kingdom
Posts: 3,061
Default

Corrr Kevin they are some fancy xmas tree lights those
__________________
is mos redintegro

__5th Div___46th Div__
1942 Ford Universal Carrier No.3 MkI*
Lower Hull No. 10131
War Department CT54508 (SOLD)
1944 Ford Universal Carrier MkII* (under restoration).
1944 Morris C8 radio body (under restoration).
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 13-02-11, 17:47
kevin powles's Avatar
kevin powles kevin powles is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 1,965
Default rear axle light.

So, All we need now is a picture of the bracket that attaches the light to the rear plate. The carrier at the Mucklebourgh museum has a axle light fitted, so does another carrier i know, looks like another ride out with the camera and measuring tape.

Would be nice if someone had this info already to post on here.

Kevin.
__________________
2pdr Tank Hunter Universal Carrier 1942 registered 11/11/2008.
3" Mortar Universal Carrier 1943 registered 06/06/2009.
1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, Caunter camo.
1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, light stone.
10 cwt wartime mortar trailer.
1943 Mk2 Daimler Dingo.
1943 Willys MB.
1936 Vickers MG carrier No1 Mk1 CMM 985.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 13-02-11, 17:58
kevin powles's Avatar
kevin powles kevin powles is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 1,965
Default British Axle light.

hi, If you are looking for an axle light for a british carrier get yourself one of these, 'towing rear light extension'. Same lampholder as in my first posting in this thread and you also get several metres of carrier wiring cable.

kev.
Attached Images
 
__________________
2pdr Tank Hunter Universal Carrier 1942 registered 11/11/2008.
3" Mortar Universal Carrier 1943 registered 06/06/2009.
1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, Caunter camo.
1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, light stone.
10 cwt wartime mortar trailer.
1943 Mk2 Daimler Dingo.
1943 Willys MB.
1936 Vickers MG carrier No1 Mk1 CMM 985.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 13-02-11, 18:10
Marc van Aalderen's Avatar
Marc van Aalderen Marc van Aalderen is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Veenendaal, The Netherlands
Posts: 481
Default Butler version

Hi Guys,

If anybody needs a Butler lamp Dirk Leegwater has them NOS at 35, switch for 30.

Name:  ConvoyLights5.jpg
Views: 232
Size:  32.2 KB

Cheers,
__________________
Marc van Aalderen

Daimler Dingo Mk1B 1941
Daimler Armoured Car Mk1 1943
Daimler Ferret Mk1/1 1959
Ford Universal Carrier No2 MkII* 1944
Ford GPW British Airborne 1944
Lightweight 10 Cwt Trailer SS Cars Ltd 1944
Anti-Tank Gun 6 Pdr 7 Cwt MkII 1942
Daf Trailer YAA602 1954
Daf Trailer AT16-24-1NL 1977
Daf 2100Turbo 1982
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 13-02-11, 18:21
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,538
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin powles View Post
So, All we need now is a picture of the bracket that attaches the light to the rear plate. The carrier at the Mucklebourgh museum has a axle light fitted, so does another carrier i know, looks like another ride out with the camera and measuring tape.

Would be nice if someone had this info already to post on here.

Kevin.
I have a bent up bracket on my spare rear plate. I'll snap a photo in a bit and post it here today.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 13-02-11, 18:27
Blackpowder44 (RIP) Blackpowder44 (RIP) is offline
John Forsey
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lyme Regis, England
Posts: 109
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin powles View Post
hi, If you are looking for an axle light for a british carrier get yourself one of these, 'towing rear light extension'. Same lampholder as in my first posting in this thread and you also get several metres of carrier wiring cable.

kev.
I bought a couple of these type of lights and always understood that they were to attach to a towed gun muzzle, seemed to make sense. John.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 13-02-11, 18:31
Blackpowder44 (RIP) Blackpowder44 (RIP) is offline
John Forsey
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lyme Regis, England
Posts: 109
Default Convoy axel light.

It looks as if we are talking about two different lights here. Some shown are used to light up the rear diff, painted white, on British vehicles and trailors. The other type seems to be for the rear light on Bren carriers,. Which light do you want pictures of. John.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 13-02-11, 19:32
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,538
Default

Here are some photos of the bracket for the convoy light, located inside the rear armour plate covering the axle. It would have illuminated the white round plate mounted behind the axle.

Spider webs are not original to the bracket, and the bracket is a bit bent, but should give an idea of what it looked like. The numbered portion was pointing towards the bottom, while the open part was towards the top.

This rear plate was found partially buried up in the Northern forests of Ontario. It is fairly complete, I just need to spend some time on the hydraulic press to straighten it. I have straightened worse.
Attached Thumbnails
2009_0417convoylamp0001.JPG   2009_0417convoylamp0004.JPG   2009_0417convoylamp0006.JPG  
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 13-02-11, 21:23
kevin powles's Avatar
kevin powles kevin powles is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: united kingdom
Posts: 1,965
Default axle light bracket

Hi Rob, Thanks for posting that picture, spot on, I have sent you a e-mail regarding the bracket.

thanks kevin.
__________________
2pdr Tank Hunter Universal Carrier 1942 registered 11/11/2008.
3" Mortar Universal Carrier 1943 registered 06/06/2009.
1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, Caunter camo.
1941 Standard Mk1 stowage Carrier, light stone.
10 cwt wartime mortar trailer.
1943 Mk2 Daimler Dingo.
1943 Willys MB.
1936 Vickers MG carrier No1 Mk1 CMM 985.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 13-02-11, 21:24
Marc van Aalderen's Avatar
Marc van Aalderen Marc van Aalderen is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Veenendaal, The Netherlands
Posts: 481
Default Kevin,

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin powles View Post
hi, If you are looking for an axle light for a british carrier get yourself one of these, 'towing rear light extension'. Same lampholder as in my first posting in this thread and you also get several metres of carrier wiring cable.

kev.
Do you have a source for these? I would like one, only need the lead actually but will take complete set. I already have one and it goes with my 6 Pdr as a muzzle light. Missing the lead, and off course the connector on the carrier.
Help much appreciated!

Cheers,
__________________
Marc van Aalderen

Daimler Dingo Mk1B 1941
Daimler Armoured Car Mk1 1943
Daimler Ferret Mk1/1 1959
Ford Universal Carrier No2 MkII* 1944
Ford GPW British Airborne 1944
Lightweight 10 Cwt Trailer SS Cars Ltd 1944
Anti-Tank Gun 6 Pdr 7 Cwt MkII 1942
Daf Trailer YAA602 1954
Daf Trailer AT16-24-1NL 1977
Daf 2100Turbo 1982
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 13-02-11, 21:29
RichardT10829's Avatar
RichardT10829 RichardT10829 is offline
Richard Harrison
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cullercoats Newcastle Upon Tyne United Kingdom
Posts: 3,061
Default

i know Dirk had these sets Marc, worth calling him thats for sure.

Rob if for any reason that bracket makes it over the pond on loan, could i please perhaps possibly ask that it heads north to me before it is returned

you would be compensated for yer troubles.

Richie
__________________
is mos redintegro

__5th Div___46th Div__
1942 Ford Universal Carrier No.3 MkI*
Lower Hull No. 10131
War Department CT54508 (SOLD)
1944 Ford Universal Carrier MkII* (under restoration).
1944 Morris C8 radio body (under restoration).
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 13-02-11, 21:33
Marc van Aalderen's Avatar
Marc van Aalderen Marc van Aalderen is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Veenendaal, The Netherlands
Posts: 481
Default Richie,

Thanks mate! I will ask Dirk. Seems you made some progress on your Carrier over the last days. Hope you get it done in time for Arnhem 2011.

Cheers,
__________________
Marc van Aalderen

Daimler Dingo Mk1B 1941
Daimler Armoured Car Mk1 1943
Daimler Ferret Mk1/1 1959
Ford Universal Carrier No2 MkII* 1944
Ford GPW British Airborne 1944
Lightweight 10 Cwt Trailer SS Cars Ltd 1944
Anti-Tank Gun 6 Pdr 7 Cwt MkII 1942
Daf Trailer YAA602 1954
Daf Trailer AT16-24-1NL 1977
Daf 2100Turbo 1982
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 13-02-11, 22:05
Local Chap Local Chap is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 115
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin powles View Post
hi, That ebay one shows the goose neck and 3/4" conduit which is correct, but is that a true canadian carrier light fitting?. Anyone got any other images of the correct canadian type?.

kev.
The Canadian Carrier lamp is the same type fitted to Cab 11/12 CMPs:
Attached Thumbnails
IMG_2109.JPG   IMG_2108.JPG  
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 14-02-11, 00:56
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,538
Default

Kevin and Richard: I can send it over for a spell I suppose. I'll PM you later Kevin.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 14-02-11, 19:02
shaun shaun is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 528
Default

This photo is from Derks website, its the same as the old one i had on my MK2* on the rear
Attached Images
 
__________________
Shaun Hindle

Morris C8
Ford GPW jeep 1945
Morris 1000 (ex mil)
SAS LSV
Harley Davidson MT 350 motor cycle
Universal carrier MK 1*1943 Ronson (under restoration)
Universal carrier MK 2* 1944 (Puddle Jumper HSK 345)
Ferret MK 1/1 1956
Ferret MK 2/4 1958
CVR(T) Scorpion
432 MK2
Daimler MK1 armoured car 1943
(winner best wheeled armour W&P show 2011)
Daimler Dingo MK2 1944 (awaiting restoration, aquired 11/12/2011)
Fordson WOT 3 D 1940 (awaiting restoration )
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 16-02-11, 06:05
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,538
Default

I removed the bracket, straightened it up, and gave it a quick spray. I also repaired one broken weld. It came out reasonable. It was hard to tell is it was 100% if the angle is correct, but I put a bend on the feet which would point the lamp down wards. Tomorrow I'll make a drawing of it for someone who asked, then prepare to mail the lamp overseas. Quite frankly, it is a fairly simple bracket once it's straightened out. I'll post the drawing and you fellows from the old world can decide if you want to borrow the original or can live with the drawing.

Looking at the various Ford CMP truck parts manuals I cannot find the proper lamp portions that matches the carrier parts. Note the tail light is a mix of carrier part numbers and truck part numbers. My truck parts manuals seem to skip around parts ID' as C01Q-13422, and 13423, although a number of the parts listed in the carrier manual are relevant to the truck lamp shown in my photos. Also a stock truck tail lamp will not fit in the hole. The hole would have to be made larger to accommodate it.

Anyway, here are some shots of the restored bracket and the small clip to hold the cable in place. Even the clip is dated and has a part number on it. Unfortunately I broke the little #2 cheeshead screw that holds it in place.

I recall finding the bracket and switch for this lamp before as well. It was bolted onto the top edge of the axle armour plate.
Attached Thumbnails
2009_0419convoylamp0016.JPG   2009_0419convoylamp0015.JPG   2009_0419convoylamp0011.JPG   2009_0419convoylamp0017.JPG  

Last edited by rob love; 16-02-11 at 16:57.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 16-02-11, 16:54
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,538
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardT10829 View Post
they bolt onto the tool plate with a bracket....that chap

if i recall it appeared to be two bolts through the tool plate into the mount for the lamp.
The bracket I have shown was mounted on the inside of the back plate using the two bolts used for the bottom of the right hand tow rope bracket.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 16-02-11, 19:28
jeff davis's Avatar
jeff davis jeff davis is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: maple ridge b.c
Posts: 537
Default Bracket

It would be great if you could do a drawing and post it.
Regards Jeff
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 18-02-11, 04:13
rob love rob love is offline
carrier mech
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Posts: 7,538
Default

I knew I had one around here somewhere, and as I was looking through an old bin of gunparts downstairs, there it was. This is the proper lamp for the carriers. It is a combination of the standard truck lamp (the tube, spring and lense) used with a bushing, then the smaller diameter electrical connector as well as a nut and some lock washers.

The bushing almost looks like the type used on conduit.

On one of the photos I have gone high tech and drawn the part numbers relevant to each piece from the manual. There is a lock washer on this that is not listed.
Attached Thumbnails
2009_0421convoylamp0005.JPG   2009_0421convoylamp0003.JPG   2009_0421convoylamp0002.JPG  
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: For sale #1 convoy light r.morrison For Sale Or Wanted 0 21-06-21 01:31
CMP Convoy Light m606paz The Softskin Forum 2 27-01-21 22:15
convoy light Maurice Donckers The Softskin Forum 4 06-04-13 10:03
Axle convoy lamp on e-bay Tony Smith For Sale Or Wanted 0 20-11-08 16:13
Convoy light brackets Jordan Baker The Softskin Forum 1 30-09-06 10:41


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016