Carrier Assembly; Helpful hints, tricks and traps

[Lynn Eades]

Hi. I thought I'd start a thread that covers some of the BASICS of assembling a carrier of British or Canadian origin. Some things are seemingly obvious, but not everyone has access to the same info. For example I have some books that cover both British and Canadian carriers. I would not expect the Canadians here to have British manuals. There are many differences between the seemingly similar. The little "*" or the lack of it, in the carriers nomenclature, covers a raft of differences.
The various manuals and parts books with different print dates have not each time covered all the info. An army mechanic would have been familiarised with the carrier via courses and training. Often, we manage to round up most of the components and have to figure out how to put them together or make what's missing.
Ultimately this is hopefully a resource for that hard to find stuff about the basic running gear of these machines.

I'd suggest that if some wants to do the same for an Australian / New Zealand LP2/2a, then that should be a separate thread for the sake of simplicity.

[Lynn Eades]

CROSS TUBE SPACERS.
The first thing that brought me to this thread was the spacers that fit on the cross tube on the inside and out side of the double bogie frames.
I looked in 5 books to find this.
There are two plain washers and two dust excluders.
There is a thick washer(TL1624) and a thick dust excluder these go on the shaft before the bogie frame next to the leather gaiter.
There are a thin dust excluder(TL1625) and a thin washer(TL 1623) These two thin ones go on the outside before the clip (clamp)

[Lynn Eades]

SEAL TRACKS.

The outer seal tracks in the front (adjustable) bogie, are wider than those in all the other wheels.
So, each carrier requires 2 of the wide TL119. One for the outer seal of each front wheel.
(the other six wheels us two each of the narrower TL22. Total 12 required)

[kevin powles]

Lynn, here's a basic one, if making a set of carrier front fenders, if you make one side and drill the fixing holes, don't drill the other side the same, they won't fit!, mounting holes are different!.

[Lynn Eades]

FITTING A SPROCKET.
I'm not sure of the detail, but there is a right location and a wrong one when bolting a sprocket onto the hub. It is so that a gap is open for the cut out for fitting the back plate screws to the hull. I read it in a manual.

[Lynn Eades]

TOP ROLLER SEAL TRACKS,
are the same as the wider seal tracks found in the outside seal of the adjustable bogie wheel (TL119) All the other seal tracks are narrower.
I bought some double lipped standard automotive seals for mine.
The size 2.000 I.D.,x 2.625 O.D., x .375 (imperial)
If your carrier has had cork or felt seals the seal carrier might be worn bigger.

[Lynn Eades]

ASSEMBLY ORDER.
If you have completely gutted your hull, the first things to go back in are the gear change parts along the floor and the bottom (between the bed rails) radiator shroud. (it bolts to the floor)
It would be wise to lube/antiseize where you can.
I Put my cross tube in first, but probably the gear change should be first.
The British service book says to leave the roller brackets loose on the inside of the hull and put the shaft in. This makes access to the nuts more difficult. Remember there are 4 holes that hold the leather boot frame on the out side.
The book says to grease the roller assemblies and pack the leather boots with grease (having tie wired the boots into place with a single piece of wire, each side)
Once the cross tube is in, I then put my cam plate (already fitted up on its mounting plate) in. There is little clearance between the big nut and the cross tube. This may need to be relieved.
I assembled the cam plate rollers in last. We are then required to adjust the clearance (rollers to cam plate, )to 0.001".
I then installed the two steering rods from the cam plate forward. It is awkward to get the lock nuts on the bottom.

[Lynn Eades]

DRIVE AXLE
I am assembling my diff at the moment and have spent a while trying to find what thickness the gasket is between the two halves of the housing.
It is very important that the gasket is the correct thickness as it is the medium by which the diff side bearings are pre-loaded.
I hunted through about 8 parts books and manuals and found no sizes (Henry wanted to sell us gaskets)
I looked in the big Australian Workshop manual (M.G. 2 pdr. and 3" Mortar) In there it says they are 0.010"thick, which for you young un-edumakated and otherwise metricated guys, it is 0.25mm (= 0.0098") near enough!

The part number for the gasket is BB-4035 and state side, Best gasket sell them. I made mine.

Bearing cross over;

2.Pinion Cup Ford BB-4616-B = Timken 53375
2.Pinion Cone Ford BB-4621-B = Timken 53176
1.Pinion nose inner BB-4626-D = SKF 325105... No Timken yet (bought from Macs Auto)
1.Nose end Brg. BB-4625-AZ Timken ...No number yet (This is the Nth American style. The Brit one is different)
2.Side bearing Cup BB-4222 = Timken 3920 (Bower uses Timken numbers)
2.Side bearing ConeBB-4221-B =Timken 3982

[Lynn Eades]

Cross tube tire wire
I bent up a bit of tie wire like in the picture. It worked well.
The original was like this, done from a single piece of wire.

[Michael R.]

Using the correct generator stud (at a minimum) saves a whole lot of hurt. Consider making an additional bracket that prevents or reduces the probability of the fan assembly with attached generator from falling into the radiator should the stud shear off.

[Michael R.]

Sample British generator support brackets.

[The Bedford Boys]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

DRIVE AXLE
I am assembling my diff at the moment and have spent a while trying to find what thickness the gasket is between the two halves of the housing.
It is very important that the gasket is the correct thickness as it is the medium by which the diff side bearings are pre-loaded.
I hunted through about 8 parts books and manuals and found no sizes (Henry wanted to sell us gaskets)
I looked in the big Australian Workshop manual (M.G. 2 pdr. and 3" Mortar) In there it says they are 0.010"thick, which for you young un-edumakated and otherwise metricated guys, it is 0.25mm (= 0.0098") near enough!

The part number for the gasket is BB-4035 and state side, Best gasket sell them. I made mine.

Bearing cross over;

2.Pinion Cup Ford BB-4616-B = Timken 53375
2.Pinion Cone Ford BB-4621-B = Timken 53176
1.Pinion nose inner BB-4626-D = SKF 325105... No Timken yet (bought from Macs Auto)
1.Nose end Brg. BB-4625-AZ Timken ...No number yet (This is the Nth American style. The Brit one is different)
2.Side bearing Cup BB-4222 = Timken 3920 (Bower uses Timken numbers)
2.Side bearing ConeBB-4221-B =Timken 3982

We do timken diffs a bit differently. As each diff can and is different in machining from factory, we assemble the diff vertically, trying different thickness gaskets until the crownwheel gives good feel when spun with fingers through the pinion bearing hole. This gives good results. I've seen diffs with quite thick gaskets, and some with no gasket at all! This is the method described to me by a number of Ford truck enthusiasts who've done quite a few diffs. Just my 5c.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

ASSEMBLY ORDER.
If you have completely gutted your hull, the first things to go back in are the gear change parts along the floor and the bottom (between the bed rails) radiator shroud. (it bolts to the floor)
It would be wise to lube/anti-seize where you can.
I Put my cross tube in first, but probably the gear change should be first.
The British service book says to leave the roller brackets loose on the inside of the hull and put the shaft in. This makes access to the nuts more difficult. Remember there are 4 holes that hold the leather boot frame on the out side.
The book says to grease the roller assemblies and pack the leather boots with grease (having tie wired the boots into place with a single piece of wire, each side)
Once the cross tube is in, I then put my cam plate (already fitted up on its mounting plate) in. There is little clearance between the big nut and the cross tube. This may need to be relieved.
I assembled the cam plate rollers in last. We are then required to adjust the clearance (rollers to cam plate, )to 0.001".
I then installed the two steering rods from the cam plate forward. It is awkward to get the lock nuts on the bottom.

I just finished these items 2 minutes ago, and my order was slightly different.
1: cam assy first (never mind, make it last). These are a bugger....I like to get it done first
2: Shift assy and linkage and pillow block. Done before the roller and steering cross shaft, it allows you to get the bolts in in case you need to bring it up a bit.
3: Hull rollers and brackets. I had mine completely assembled in their bracket. Cross shaft will go through just fine EXCEPT: cross shaft must go in from right to left so you can work it around the steering plate center nut. If you try to come in from the left side of the carrier, it will jam up against the nut with nowhere to go.
4: Steering rollers and blocks: Note that the blocks are paired and are bore aligned. Mixing the pairs, or even reversing the top from the bottom, will make the alignment bad, and may not allow the blocks to clamp properly or the adjusters to turn in their holes. Same goes for the block holding the transmission shift linkage bearing. It will be bore aligned and only go together one way properly. With these kinds of blocks, one does well to stamp or pin-punch them prior to removal. I recall snapping a ferret mounting block because I mixed caps.
Edited to add: This will re-enforce Lynn's order: I ended up having to remove my cross shaft to get the roller blocks in place. There is insufficient room to install them from the bottom with the cam plate in place. Oh well, two steps forward and one step back.

5: And this is a big one: try and restore your carrier before you turn 50 and the arthritis sets in.

[super dave]

Originally Posted by rob love

I just finished these items 2 minutes ago, and my order was slightly different.
1: cam assy first. These are a bugger....I like to get it done first
2: Shifter assy and linkage and pillow block. Done before the roller and steering shaft, it allows you to get the bolts in in case you need to bring it up a bit.
3: Hull rollers and brackets. I had mine completely assembled in their bracket. Cross shaft will go through just fine EXCEPT: cross shaft must go in from right to left so you can work it around the steering plate center nut. If you try to come in from the left side of the carrier, it will jam up against the nut with knowhere to go.
4: Steering rollers and blocks: Note that the blocks are paired and are bore aligned. Mixing the pairs, or even reversing the top from the bottom, will make the alignment bad, and may not allow the blocks to clamp properly or the adjusters to turn in their holes. Same goes for the block holding the transmission shifter linkage bearing. It will be bore aligned and only go together one way properly. With these kinds of blocks, one does well to stamp or pinpunch them prior to removal. I recall snapping a ferret mounting block because I mixed caps.
5: And this is a big one: try and restore your carrier before you turn 50 and the arthritis sets in.

I like #5

[Paul Dutton]

Originally Posted by rob love

I just finished these items 2 minutes ago, and my order was slightly different.
1: cam assy first. These are a bugger....I like to get it done first
2: Shifter assy and linkage and pillow block. Done before the roller and steering shaft, it allows you to get the bolts in in case you need to bring it up a bit.
3: Hull rollers and brackets. I had mine completely assembled in their bracket. Cross shaft will go through just fine EXCEPT: cross shaft must go in from right to left so you can work it around the steering plate center nut. If you try to come in from the left side of the carrier, it will jam up against the nut with knowhere to go.
4: Steering rollers and blocks: Note that the blocks are paired and are bore aligned. Mixing the pairs, or even reversing the top from the bottom, will make the alignment bad, and may not allow the blocks to clamp properly or the adjusters to turn in their holes. Same goes for the block holding the transmission shifter linkage bearing. It will be bore aligned and only go together one way properly. With these kinds of blocks, one does well to stamp or pinpunch them prior to removal. I recall snapping a ferret mounting block because I mixed caps.
5: And this is a big one: try and restore your carrier before you turn 50 and the arthritis sets in.

Ha ha, #5!
Or wait til you ARE 50 then buy your carrier like me!! By then you will ALREADY be on pain killers and anti inflammatory drugs!😀

[Lynn Eades]

So many of us young fellas in the same boat

I think I just hijacked my own thread?)

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

So many of us young fellas in the same boat

I think I just hijacked my own thread?)

He shoots!

[RichardT10829]

He scores !!

There should be a number 6

Restore your project as best you can without exposing yourself to nasty chemicals. Asbestos. RA.226 etc etc

[Lynn Eades]

Moving right along.... Fitting the radiator etc.
Having sorted (FIRST) all the linkages for the clutch throttle etc, that hide under the oil cooler and radiator it is time to fit the oil cooler.
Before this you followed the workshop manual advice to remove the ends from the cooler pipes and anneal them (copper work hardens and in this state can crack!) Aside from the fact that I didn't do this, it might help to burn free some of the 60 year old crud that is stuck in the pipes, which leads to the need to be sure everything is very clean on the inside (just how much have you spent on that engine???)
Anyhow, fit the oil cooler in its brackets and then fit the left hand pipe. The fitting on the cooler sits lower for a reason- so that you can get spanners turning in there. Now you an do the other one.
To fit the radiator it would be easier with the cam plate cover and battery tray out of the way (how else do you get to hold the rad. mounting bolts?
I am just doing this now. (I have the wiring that crosses across under the cooler done)
It looks like the radiator drops in from the drivers side and slides sideways on top of the rubber mounts, to the left.(the left side plate has to go under the lower cover rail) Now you move the bottom forward so that you may fight the bottom hoses into place (not forgetting the hose clips) and then finally you move the radiator toward the rear until the mounting bolt holes line up.

As my only experience here is based on "present" and "future" maybe some of you "old hands" can "add to" or "refute" some of the above.

On another tack, If you have a generator with a regulator (british) then to test them you will need both to go to the auto electricians together.

[Lynn Eades]

Hi Guys. I thought I'd add the steering box seal sizes, for the Canadian Carrier, Ross steering box.
The big one (sector shaft) at the bottom is 1 7/16" x 1.0" x 5/16".
That translates to 1.437" x 1.0" x0.312"
The worm seal (small one) is also an imperial measurement seal
It is 1 5/16" x 7/8" x 5/16" or the other way it is 1.312" x 0.875" x 0.312"
For me, I could only buy them 1/4" thick.
I bet you young guys love this stuff.

BTW. I am looking for the top plate (with the adjusting screw) from one of these boxes, if anyone has a spare. Thankyou in advance.