M38A1 winch

Jack Innes · #1 18-03-12, 18:29

I have an M38A1 and about a 1960 CJ5 chassis with a factory winch & rear PTO. Will this winch setup fit directly on the M38A1? Was there any military application for the rear PTO? Is the transfer case PTO different to just drive the winch - other than 2 levers? Thank you for any information.

rob love · #2 19-03-12, 02:48

Your set up will work, but you will have to modify your exhaust and depending what bellcrank you have, you might have an issue there.

The military used only the Ramsey 50 and 50R winches with a smallish Ramsey PTO and slim U joints with a hanger block at the bellhousing. These parts are expensive and hard to find, and were particular to the military.

I think there was a welder mounted in the back of some of the early M38s that might have used the rear PTO, but I won't say for certain. The ramsey military PTO had a flange on the back which could have been used for alternate applications, although it was only controlled by 1 lever.

I have had both styles of winches, and there were two manufacturers for the basic civilian jeeps. They were Ramsey and Keonig. I have found the keonigs to be a little more difficult to install as well as not as good a quality as the ramsey.

maple_leaf_eh · #3 21-03-12, 04:40

I remember the winch as a Ramsey. Gear lever in the cab with a little hinged Y fork for a lockout, and the engage/disengage/reverse lever up front on the winch body. There was also something different about the front bumper, or maybe I am remembering the fairlead rollers?

Jack Innes · #4 22-03-12, 23:24

Thank you Rob & Terry for the information. The winch I have is a Ramsay but for now it looks like quite a modification to mount it. I think I will leave it on the chassis as it is for now. This is a display chassis with 41 miles on it from new & perhaps it should remain as just that.

rob love · #5 22-03-12, 23:40

The usual winch on a CJ was the ramsey 200. The winch is wider and longer than the military winch, and is a bit of a tight fit in the M38A1. The installation of the 50 series military winch did not require any front bumper change, whereas the 200 series civilian winches usually had a bit of a bumper extension. Otherwise it would be a very tight fit.

Phil Waterman · #6 22-03-12, 23:49

Hi All

One of the guys in our MV Club has found some winches for the M38 believed to by the military version. No other details yet available but will keep you posted.

Cheers Phil

SteveJ · #7 23-03-12, 00:35

I had a 200 series 8000 lb Ramsey winch mounted in my M38 in an angle iron frame. It fit clean but the engagement lever had to be switched to the front side or it rubbed against the grill. the fairlead for it was bolted to the top of the bumper. No extension was required. One of the difficulties is that with the normal ujoints available when the steering was turned to lock. From what I remember to the left the steering bellcrank and the ujoint would touch slightly. (thats why those slim military ujoints are so nice) It was not unlivable at the time as long as you knew and only was bothersome when snowplowing.

Originally I had the koeinig PTO which as Rob stated earlier was more difficult to mount and tended to thump the bottom of the floorpan once in awhile when you came off the throttle as it had very little clearance. It was solid though and worked fine. The exhaust had to be modified to clear the PTO and winch driveshafts. After that I installed the ramsey PT1 F which drove front and back. It fit much better but the exhaust still had to be modified.

The final answer with some patience is the Ramsey 105A PTO and the Ramsey 73A winch. (model 50 or 50R as an assembly) Designed for the M38 or A1 no modification is required and bolts in place in no time. It is an excellent setup though very hard and expensive to come by.

The 105 A PTO on my jeep has a triple row pulley attached to the rear flange for driving bed mounted accessories (welder/ generator) up through the floorpan. ive never seen a military aplication of this using the rear flange to drive something off the back of the jeep.

rob love · #8 23-03-12, 01:20

Nice looking setup Steve.

I have had the winches in the past, but these days the stuff seems harder to find. I have been piecing my setup together for a couple years now. Still looking for the hanger assy at the bellhousing, the rear shaft, and the winch itself. I have a couple of the military PTOs, the winch mounting bracket, one shaft with U joints, and the floor PTO lockout assy.

SteveJ · #9 24-03-12, 02:38

Thanks Rob

I was lucky with mine. The original winch had been on my list of wants for a while. A few years ago I was buying some M38 parts from a gentleman in Edmonton and he asked me if I was looking for anything else. I kind of jokingly mentioned that I would like a winch. He said Oh! Ive got one of those. I ended up with the hanger bearing, the shafts, the winch and the mount. The winch still had the ADD oil tag on it. The PTO came later from a guy in New York and I ended up paying almost as much for it alone as I did for the rest of the setup but figured id better bite the bullet and get it or I might not see another. Now for any of that stuff the price is through the roof compared to what i paid for my setup.