Unusual jeep

[Little Jo]

Hi All

I noticed this WW2 Jeep for sale on e-Bay. The vehicle is for sale in Australia and is advertised as a 06/1942 FORD/WILLYS JEEP. I am confused as it does not appear to be the same as my 1942 MB Willys Jeep I recently restored. The Data plate shows it as a "Ford" and the engine has "Willys Jeep" on the top of the engine head, which mine does not. My Engine number is behind the Oil filter and my chassis Number which is confirmed for a 04/08/1942 delivered MB Willys Jeep.

The vehicle for sale states the engine number as: GPW11542, and the chassis number as 112330. I have enclosed photos and would be interested if it is a "Ford" or "Willys" Jeep. The chassis number 112330 is in the 1942 MB Willys Jeep manufacture range. I am Confused.

Details off e-Bay below.

Cheers

Tony

FORD WILLYS JEEP - 06/1942 - GOOD RELIABLE WORKING CONDITION- VERY ORIGINAL AND AUTHENTIC - VIC HISTORIC REG ...09586-H

Good Early example of FORD/WILLYS JEEP. Has recently been approved for rego by the Victorian Military Vehicle Club, the Tester commented favourably on how original it was. Drives very nicely, front brakes just reconditioned. Starts first time (foot starter, kill switch) all canvass seats good, solid body. Paint acceptable, however a repaint would make vehicle top class.

-12 volt electrical system -original Left-Hand Drive -near new tyres -good canvass top - new points, plugs, oil. -indicators and lights.

Unfortunately I am not giving it the attention it deserves and when I do my wife does not give me the favourable attention I deserve.

Vehicle is at Burwood, Victoria. You are welcome to look and hear run, no joy rides sorry.

[Lynn Eades]

The Willys were built first. When ford started building them, they used Willys chassis in the first lot.
To give you an idea, Willys serial 112815 has a delivery date of 16th Jan 42
Ford serial112401 was delivered in april 43.
The Cyl head with "willys" cast into it, is post war(if i remember correctly)
The Willys has a round tube cross member in front of the grill.
The Ford has the inverted Channel cross member (there are many other differences) As stated the early Fords correctly have a Willys chassis.

[Little Jo]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

The Willys were built first. When ford started building them, they used Willys chassis in the first lot.
To give you an idea, Willys serial 112815 has a delivery date of 16th Jan 42
Ford serial112401 was delivered in april 43.
The Cyl head with "willys" cast into it, is post war(if i remember correctly)
The Willys has a round tube cross member in front of the grill.
The Ford has the inverted Channel cross member (there are many other differences) As stated the early Fords correctly have a Willys chassis.

Hi Lynn

Thank you for getting back and sorting that out for me. I was confused as to how the guy was advertising the Jeep. I think prospective buyers should be aware of the differences.

Cheers

Tony

[Lynn Eades]

Get on the G503 forum. It should cater to your appetite (come back though)

[jason meade]

Seems to just be an early ford with a late willys engine inplace of the original, Willys engines were cast better and survived better than fords did, Fords were known to crack in several places.
As stated ford did use willys numbers for awhilewhile using willys frames at the same time untill they got up and running.
Jeep looks ok, but has m-38 rims or cj rims. hood blocks are wrong, signal lights,and should be 6 volt.
Guess the said club should relook at how original it is...lol
Jason

[Little Jo]

Originally Posted by jason meade

Seems to just be an early ford with a late willys engine inplace of the original, Willys engines were cast better and survived better than fords did, Fords were known to crack in several places.
As stated ford did use willys numbers for awhilewhile using willys frames at the same time untill they got up and running.
Jeep looks ok, but has m-38 rims or cj rims. hood blocks are wrong, signal lights,and should be 6 volt.
Guess the said club should relook at how original it is...lol
Jason

Hi Jason

You are correct, closer inspection does show some variations to the original. As I am only new to the restoration game and having restored mine from the chassis up, I had to have it all original before I could get it approved road worthy at the government garage and signed off prior to registration to drive on the road. Our club (Wartime Vehicle Conservarion Group, also had to inspect the vehicle and sign off as original before my Jeep could be registered. I am concerned for any new prospective members joining any Military Club that they may not always purchase an original vehicle. I guess I was lucky that I joined a club first and had a lot of support and assistance from members before I started looking for a project. I also had a good mate who assisted in locating the right vehicle.

Cheers

Tony

[warren brown]

Hi Little Jo - that head has the word JEEP pressed into it. Wartime jeeps were never officially known as 'jeeps' - that head is off a post-war CJ2 or 2A. It's a commercial/civilian head.
I'm not sure, but I think they were popular because of a change in compression...

[Little Jo]

Originally Posted by warren brown

Hi Little Jo - that head has the word JEEP pressed into it. Wartime jeeps were never officially known as 'jeeps' - that head is off a post-war CJ2 or 2A. It's a commercial/civilian head.
I'm not sure, but I think they were popular because of a change in compression...

Hi Warren

Thanks for the information, I will make some enquiries as to the CJ engines and see if that was a good option, though by changing the engine to a post war CJ engine is it still an original 1942 vehicle, or should the seller advise a purchaser the vehicle is not standard.

Cheers

Tony

[Ian Fawbert]

Hi mate,

The others have given you some good info, but i thought i would add abit.

The head is late ww2/post war- there is quite a detailed evolution of the head markings relating to both Willys and Ford heads- with as is often stated on g503.com, WILLYS JEEP on the head is late war (1944/1945)- casting date is needed to be certain of the heads date! Check this site for info on heads!!! http://ww2jeeps.com/htm/heads.htm truncate it to http://ww2jeeps.com for more info on jeeps. A side note about CJ engines- they tended to be a popular choice due to the gear driven cam as well as availability as a new motor when about people were looking to re do their jeeps, however we are fortunate here in australia that there werent many CJ's to ad to the confusion of parts! Alot of parts on jeeps in Oz, are ww2 or made for the ww2 jeep, not made for a civilian equivalent vehicle and added later- dodgy repro parts from the last 30>40 years are a different kettle of fish!

Did you know on a Ford GPW from factory the engine and chassis number should match (also match the dataplate on dash). As such, the engine of this jeep is approx early april 1942 (its very close to my GPW 11730!). One other easy one about chassis serials, Willys MB's start with 100001, GPW start at #1.

It does have a GPW style body though- note the rectangular depressions around the tool box locks (your MB would have round ones). These rectangles are unique to only ford made bodies. Willys had round, then sometime in early 1944 from memory, a composite body was produced using willys and ford design which has round depressions, but other ford features. So, there are ford bodies (with many different features for early and late!), ACM 1 (American Central Manufacturing) bodies used by willys and ACM 2 composite bodies used by both. To throw a spanner, ford used ACM 1 tubs and other main panels with their own ford bolt on bits in late 43>early 44, so you may find a GPW like this around (there are a few) which can be a curve ball!

At a guess, this jeep has been through a rebuild at some stage or rebuilt using different bits during resto. I cant see enough details of things like dash and running gear to give more educated guess. The repro plates probably could be the current number of the chassis, but it isnt exact for June 1942 as per the add, or october 42 as per the plate- it should be around april/may 1943- GPW 112189 is here in Australia- in NSW (http://www.g503.com/serial-numbers/v...?record_id=680). I would guess though that the chassis is original to the body (ford chassis and ford body match the ford serial number). We did also get alot of rebuilt early jeeps which had been used by the US forces stateside during and post ww2, so it might be one of these, it might not (probably not).

I suggest you ask for All American Wonder Volumes 1 and 2 (vol 3 isnt as good) for christmas as they will answer ALOT of questions and make you a more knowledgable jeeper! There are many other good books like Standardised war time jeep 1 and 2 by John Farley (dated pics showing changes!), Jeep Jeep Jeep, Ren Berniers guide to ww2 jeeps etc etc which would also make good stocking stuffers! Of course, as stated www.g503.com is a good place to check out for jeep related things too!

Hope this helps,
Ian.

[warren brown]

That's amazing Ian! Well done. I learn something everyday!

[Ian Fawbert]

Happy to help mate! Better to get the info out of my head than keep it in there!

Cheers,
Ian.

[Little Jo]

Originally Posted by Ian Fawbert

Hi mate,

The others have given you some good info, but i thought i would add abit.

The head is late ww2/post war- there is quite a detailed evolution of the head markings relating to both Willys and Ford heads- with as is often stated on g503.com, WILLYS JEEP on the head is late war (1944/1945)- casting date is needed to be certain of the heads date! Check this site for info on heads!!! http://ww2jeeps.com/htm/heads.htm truncate it to http://ww2jeeps.com for more info on jeeps. A side note about CJ engines- they tended to be a popular choice due to the gear driven cam as well as availability as a new motor when about people were looking to re do their jeeps, however we are fortunate here in australia that there werent many CJ's to ad to the confusion of parts! Alot of parts on jeeps in Oz, are ww2 or made for the ww2 jeep, not made for a civilian equivalent vehicle and added later- dodgy repro parts from the last 30>40 years are a different kettle of fish!

Did you know on a Ford GPW from factory the engine and chassis number should match (also match the dataplate on dash). As such, the engine of this jeep is approx early april 1942 (its very close to my GPW 11730!). One other easy one about chassis serials, Willys MB's start with 100001, GPW start at #1.

It does have a GPW style body though- note the rectangular depressions around the tool box locks (your MB would have round ones). These rectangles are unique to only ford made bodies. Willys had round, then sometime in early 1944 from memory, a composite body was produced using willys and ford design which has round depressions, but other ford features. So, there are ford bodies (with many different features for early and late!), ACM 1 (American Central Manufacturing) bodies used by willys and ACM 2 composite bodies used by both. To throw a spanner, ford used ACM 1 tubs and other main panels with their own ford bolt on bits in late 43>early 44, so you may find a GPW like this around (there are a few) which can be a curve ball!

At a guess, this jeep has been through a rebuild at some stage or rebuilt using different bits during resto. I cant see enough details of things like dash and running gear to give more educated guess. The repro plates probably could be the current number of the chassis, but it isnt exact for June 1942 as per the add, or october 42 as per the plate- it should be around april/may 1943- GPW 112189 is here in Australia- in NSW (http://www.g503.com/serial-numbers/v...?record_id=680). I would guess though that the chassis is original to the body (ford chassis and ford body match the ford serial number). We did also get alot of rebuilt early jeeps which had been used by the US forces stateside during and post ww2, so it might be one of these, it might not (probably not).

I suggest you ask for All American Wonder Volumes 1 and 2 (vol 3 isnt as good) for christmas as they will answer ALOT of questions and make you a more knowledgable jeeper! There are many other good books like Standardised war time jeep 1 and 2 by John Farley (dated pics showing changes!), Jeep Jeep Jeep, Ren Berniers guide to ww2 jeeps etc etc which would also make good stocking stuffers! Of course, as stated www.g503.com is a good place to check out for jeep related things too!

Hope this helps,
Ian.

Hi Ian

Your reply was very much appreciated and thank you for the sites as to where to check out Jeeps. I certainly learned a lot today. I will talk to the "Finance Minister" and hint that I need some more reference books. It is nice to talk Jeeps, for a while there I thought there were only CMP people out there, (No offence) I love following their threads, but it is good to know we have some Jeep people out there as well.

Cheers

Tony

[Ian Fawbert]

Your welcome Tony.

Any time you want to talk jeeps, feel free! If your at Corowa next year, it would be good to meet and we can continue talking jeep in person!

I too enjoy the CMP chat- learn heaps from this site (i do have the F15A after all) but think whenever i can, share the jeep info around!

Cheers and good luck with the hinting.

Ian.