Regina Rifles Regiment

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Jim
Mark: Can you post a copy of the Regina Rifle Honour Roll which my Uncle Lee is on?

Jim;

Copy of the Regina Rifles Roll of Honour and page 368 of the Second World War Book of Remembrance, showing your Uncle's name:

Cheers

[Jim]

Hello
Here are a couple!!

GHQ 2ND Echelon ====

Taken on strength x-4 list North Shore ( N.B.) Regiment .....wef...

WEF ===

Authority - AR 3/160 d/ ====


Would there be anything there ( the Regina War Diary ) about training or just the overseas part. Anything I might find interesting?

Thanks
Jim

[Jim]

Hello

Sorry Iment to add that I have a copy of the Page ofthe Book of Rememberance from Ottawa, but I was wondering if the Regina Honour Roll was the same thing or How I could get a copy?

Thanks again
Jim

Jim, I have been trying to find a troopship sailing out of Halifax for the date mentioned but have had no luck.

http://troopships.pier90.org/1944.htm

Maybe you should send a copy of your info to the Pier 90 Organization. If nothing else it would enlarge their database.

[Jim]

Hello
Art:
Received this from Ottawa concerning Ships. In Part!!!

" A reveiw of our records indicates that Mr. Long embarked for Britain from Halifax on 4 April 1944 aboard S.S. Pasteur, disembarking in Britain on 12 April 1944. You will find enclosed a nominal roll of those who accompanied him as an infantry reinforcement draft".

Also refers to a file number Below....
HQ 405-L-18,997

Which means ===???

I tried to copy from my scanner to this post the 2 forms I have but the files are too large. One of Lee's Medals and two of the ship convoy info and passenger list, Shown below.

Reinforcement.. Infantry.. S/L. 3806...( No. 7 Canadian Infantry Reinforcement Unit)...Embarked at Halifax ... Date 4/4/44...E-817..
Then the list of names.

Thanks
Jim

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Jim
Hello
Here are a couple!!

GHQ 2ND Echelon ====

Taken on strength x-4 list North Shore ( N.B.) Regiment .....wef...

WEF ===

Authority - AR 3/160 d/ ====


Would there be anything there ( the Regina War Diary ) about training or just the overseas part. Anything I might find interesting?

Thanks
Jim

Hi Jim;

GHQ 2nd Echelon - General Headquarters, 2nd Echelon (I'll post their job shortly)

WEF - with effect (ie: effective date in this case)

Authority - AR 3/160 d/ - means under the authority of AR 3/160/d (AR 3/160 d/ - being the number of an order)

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Hi Jim;

This is in answer to your question: "If there is any other info about Uncle Lee's training from Camp Utobia N.B. or Debert N.S. or even in England", from an earlier post.

In regards to training:

A 30 Canadian Infantry Training Centre - Utopia, N.B. (20 Aug to 2 Oct 1943)
-while attending this Training Centre, he would have qualified in all the elementary subjects of infantry training, ie: drill, physical training, first aid, marching, small arms training, bayonet fighting, gas training, fieldcraft, map reading and fundamental (General Military knowledge) training, or, in other words, while attending this Training Centre, he would have learned all the basic skills neccessary to be an Infantryman.

Trained Soldier Company, A 30 Canadian Infantry Training Centre - Utopia, N.B. (10 Jan to 18 Feb 1944)
- while a member of this company, he was probably employed on General Duties in support of various courses/serials that were at that time undergoing training within the Centre.

No. 1 Training Brigade Group - Debert, N.S. (19 Feb to 04 Apr 1944)
- while on strength of the Training Brigade Group, he would have been in one of the three Infantry Training Battalions that were within the Training Brigade Group. The purpose of No. 1 Training Brigade Group was to give a final four week course to reinforcements before they were sent overseas. This served to review and check their individual training and to introduce them to elementary collective training up to battalion or equivalent level. Normally, at the end of this four week course, they would be posted to a reinforcement serial (draft) and proceed overseas. (Note: No. 1 Training Brigade Group contained training units of all the arms and services except for the Canadian Armoured Corps.)

No. 4 Canadian Infantry Reinforcement Unit (12 to 22 Apr 1944) and No. 12 Base Reinforcement Battalion (23 Apr to 14 Jun 1944)
- while on strength of both of these units, his Infantry skills, would have been, more or less, finely tuned, so that he would be able to take his place in an 'Infantry Rifle Section', when the time came.

These are just a brief explanation of what your Uncle would have encountered while on strength of the above mentioned units. They all, more or less, took him from being a man off the street and turned/moulded him into a functional Infantryman, through the various stages of his training, starting with A 30 Canadian Infantry Training Centre at Utopia, N.B, and ending with his being stricken off strength of No. 12 Base Reinforcement Battalion, upon posting to The Regina Rifles in Normandy.

Hope this answers your question.

Cheers

[Jim]

Hello
I just signed into the World War II Troop Ship site and left my information about the above crossing. I will post any reply's.
Thanks
Jim

[Jim]

Hello
Mark
I have to run some errands and would like to stay on this computer for awhile longer but my vacation is only 2 sleeps away and things to catch up on..
I will try to get back on later tonight.

Thanks to everyone.
Jim

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Jim
Also refers to a file number Below....
HQ 405-L-18,997 - Which means ===???

Jim;

HQ 405-L-18,997 - is just a file number

Originally posted by Jim
Reinforcement.. Infantry.. S/L. 3806...( No. 7 Canadian Infantry Reinforcement Unit)...Embarked at Halifax ... Date 4/4/44...E-817..

Jim;

Are you sure it reads No. 7 Canadian Infantry Reinforcement Unit -this unit was disbanded effective 27 March 1944 and there is nothing on his Record of Service indicating him having been taken on strength of this unit at any time.

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Jim
Here are a couple!!

GHQ 2ND Echelon ====

Hi Jim;

Canadian Section General Headquarters, 2nd Echelon, 21 Army Group

(or GHQ 2nd Echelon)

in point form:

2nd Echelon dealt with personnel. Canadian Section General Headquarters, 2nd Echelon, 21 Army Group, function was to coordinate Canadian personnel matters on the continent. Their responsibility was to translate personnel policy into action. Their specific responsibilities included:

a. - recording the location and qualifications of all Canadian officers in the theatre of operations (in this case North-West Europe);

b. - recording the evacuation of all personnel from the theatre of operations and reporting this to Canadian Military Headquarters (CMHQ - London, England);

c. - recording deaths and the locations of graves and receiving and disposing of the personel effects of the dead;

d. - coordinating the provision of the correct number of properly qualified personnel and the submissions for replacement demands to CMHQ;

e. - maintaining statistics regarding strengths, casualties, reinforcements, prisoners of war, sickness and other personnel considerations.

2nd Echelon was defined in Field Service Regulations as the 'Deputy Adjutant-General's Office at the Base'. Essentially, it was a Canadian personnel records office for North-West Europe, whose functions were the recording and reporting of casualties and the control and provision of reinforcements.

Cheers

[Jim]

Hello
Mark:
That is what is on the paper sent to me from Ottawa , regards the Convoy list from Halifax:

""Reinforcement.. Infantry.. S/L. 3806...( No. 7 Canadian Infantry Reinforcement Unit)...Embarked at Halifax ... Date 4/4/44...E-817..

Hope this helps.
Jim

[klambie]

Mark,

I'd also be curious about your source for the Roll of Honour. I presume that all of those published are from the same source, but would be interested in checking. One of my projects is to do what I can to check the accuracy of those lists. In my research, I initially pulled personnel files for 9 men listed as killed with the Reginas on 4 July. I was a bit surprised to find three of them were almost certainly Winnipegs at the time of their deaths. Could just be a fluke, but combined with conflicting information seen in other files (a fair number of mismatched dates), I wonder a bit about the accuracy of the official Regina list.

I have also obtained a copy of what appears to be the original book in which Regina Killed/Missing/PrisonersofWar were recorded. I have just completed entering that list and it appears that there are a significant number of men on the Roll of Honour that do not appear in this document. While it will be difficult to check every name without accessing each personnel file, I hope to check the most obvious discrepancies in time.

Note that the three incorrectly listed Regina casualties mentioned above also appear on the Winnipegs Roll of Honour, so they have not been completely misidentified. Also note that based on my research and the personnel file analyzed here, there is no reason to believe that Lee Frank Long was not a Regina when he was killed.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Hi Kevin;

The extract I posted is from the Roll of Honour that is published in "TO YOUR FRONT....REGINA RIFLES, A REGIMENT AT WAR: 1944-45, page 225, 'Rifleman Lee F. Long' appears as the last name at the bottom of the left hand column on the page.

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Jim
Hello
Mark:
That is what is on the paper sent to me from Ottawa , regards the Convoy list from Halifax:

""Reinforcement.. Infantry.. S/L. 3806...( No. 7 Canadian Infantry Reinforcement Unit)...Embarked at Halifax ... Date 4/4/44...E-817..

Hi Jim;

Interesting to note that your Uncle was on a draft (4 Apr 44) to a unit in the UK (No. 7 Canadian Infantry Reinforcement Unit) that no longer existed, having been disbanded effective 27 March 1944 with the reorganization of the Canadian Reinforcement Units in the United Kingdom (I guess it took a bit of time for news to travel). This would explain why there is no entry on his Record of Service regarding No. 7 Canadian Infantry Reinforcement Unit. When he arrived in the UK, he was taken on strength of No. 4 Canadian Infantry Reinforcement Unit, due to the simple fact that No. 7 no longer existed.

Cheers

[Jim]

Hello
Thanks
I'm confused!!!!( STILL )
I hope I didn't start a disagreement with the 7 Canadian Infantry Unit??

Info overwhelming!!!but keep it coming.

Thanks
Jim

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Jim
I hope I didn't start a disagreement with the 7 Canadian Infantry Unit??

No, no problem Jim, your Uncle's Reinforcement 'Infantry' draft, Serial: S/L 3806, when made up was originally intended for No. 7 Canadian Infantry Reinforcement Unit, in the United Kingdom, but since this Unit had been disbanded, upon arrival in the UK, the draft was taken on strength of No. 4 Canadian Infantry Reinforcement Unit instead.

By the way, with the Mar 1944 reorganization of the Canadian Reinforcement Units in the United Kingdom, No. 4 Canadian Infantry Reinforcement Unit, now held the reinforcements for the following infantry units: West NSR, N Shore R, NNS Highrs, Carlt & York, CB Highrs, RHC, Hast & PER and SD & G Highrs.

There is an eleven day window from the time your Uncle arrived in the UK until he was TOS to the X 4 List (Reinforcement) for the North Shore (NB) Regt.

Cheers

[Jim]

Hello
Mark:
My mom always said Lee joined with the Carleton and York Regiment but I can't find any mention of it until your last post.

Does the 11 day window have any meaning or would that time be (training)???
Jim

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Jim
Hello
Mark:
My mom always said Lee joined with the Carleton and York Regiment but I can't find any mention of it until your last post.

Does the 11 day window have any meaning or would that time be (training)???
Jim

Hi Jim;

There is no indication that your Uncle Lee ever served with the Carleton and York Regiment, either in the pre-war Non-Permanent Active Militia or after his enlistment on 02 June 1943. According to his Attestation, he had no previous Military Service or training of any kind, before his enlistment (2 Jun 43).

The eleven day window has no meaning, it was probably spent in settling in and sorting out and a bit of training of one form or another.

Cheers

[Jim]

Hello
Thanks
And I will post after my vacation.
I think I put you guys through a lot the last couple of weeks , SO I will give you a couple of weeks OFF, while I relax and then try to cipher all the info.

Thanks
Jim

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Jim
Hello
Thanks
And I will post after my vacation.
I think I put you guys through a lot the last couple of weeks , SO I will give you a couple of weeks OFF, while I relax and then try to cipher all the info.

Thanks
Jim

Have a Good One Jim!

Cheers

[Jim]

Hello
I am back from Vacation and will spend a couple of weeks catching up.
Thanks to Geoff for resetting my passwords.
also , Klambie , the info on the ships is very interesting, anything on the troop carriers, from early June to July from Halifax to England and from England to France same times.
Thanks
Jim

[Jim]

Hello to everyone.
Sorry I haven't posted for awhile , Very busy with Winter vacation and spring clean up and ( WORK )...

I have been reading some post and I have so many questions , I don't know where to start, Hope someone can help.

One at a time.

Still looking for info on the troopships that transported the Reinforcements from Halifax to England and England to Normandy? May , June , July 44.

In a recent post I just printed to add to my collection: Web page: War Chronicle... Regina Rifles..

Page 8 of 12 reads of : (The Abbey of Ardennes). July 07th.1944.
Operation CHARNWOOD.

It talks of the attack with 3 companies "B" "C" and "D" and keeping "A" in reserve.

Is there any way I can find the names of the men in each company?

I really enjoy reading these post and as others have stated This site is a Great Learning Place.

Thanking all in advance for you help and patience..
Jim

[klambie]

Hi again Jim,

I'm making a trip to the archives in Regina in early June and will have a look in the War Diary to see if Lee's company assignment is noted. The Reginas did a very poor job of recording this information for reinforcements in the June-August 1944 period, so the odds are extremely poor. However, there are a few included, so we'll see if we get lucky.

Another theory you might try. Does anyone in your family have any letters or other info from Lee from that time? I believe that his mailing address with the Reginas would typically include his Coy, so if he sent that info home, or anyone wrote to him, that's a possibility. His time with the Reginas was very brief, but it's something to try.

[Jim]

Hi Kevin
Thanks for the info and your thoughts while you are away.

I have already asked about letters and all Lee's Brothers and Sisters were too young or didn't think about saving letters.
My mom did tell me that at one time she remembers her dad receving a letter from Lee stating that all the men with him did not want to kill anyone. but No letters are around that I can find.

Thanks
Ps
I did sign into the Troop ship site but I still can't find any info there.
I will keep searching.
Thanks again
Jim

[klambie]

Jim,

Don't recall seeing this mentioned before. One of the regimental histories people have referenced on this thread (Mein) is available on line at

http://www.nosracines.ca/e/toc.asp?id=3641

A fairly brief bit about the Abbaye on pp 116-117. Worth a look if you haven't tracked this title down yet.

[Jim]

Hi
Thanks
Great reading on line.
The Library still does not have the book in stock yet.
I have booked the site and will get back to it in a couple of days.

Trying to piece some info on Troop ships with the ( Re-Inforcements) out of Halifax for the Month of June 44 to England and also from England to France.June - July 44?

Too many thoughts right now to put on paper.
Talk Later.

Thanks
Jim

[Regina]

Kevin are you going to the reunion in Saskatoon?

[klambie]

Hi Jim,

I am a fairly newly minted member of the Regimental Association and will be attending my first reunion. If you are going, we should make a point of hoisting a pint.

[Jim]

Hi
Love to have a pint with all of you, but I don't know who posted the last reply. Not me. Sorry..
Jim
London Ontario.