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Old 30-04-05, 13:54
Crewman's Avatar
Crewman Crewman is offline
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Default Falaise Gap: Friendly fire (not from the air)

Hi,

I think that majority of the MLU users know very well the facts when misdropped Allied bombs hit also Allied troops and AFVs in the Falaise Gap and similarly misfired Allied rockets attacked also Allied ground troops.

I propose other and rather rare, in my opinion, subject. I mean all cases of the land battles friendly fire between ground troops in the Falaise Gap where a mix of the international units fought in the closest neighborhood sometimes without good wireless communication.

For better thread development let's start from the quotation:

Quote:
Originally written by Maj. R. L. Rogers

At 1 p.m., 17th August, orders were received to leave the capture of Falaise to the 2nd and 3rd Canadian Infantry Divisions (in fact, the city had been almost completely cleared by the 2nd Canadian Infantry Division by noon); the 4th Canadian Armoured Division was to move farther east and south to complete the closing of the Falaise Gap in company with the 1st Polish Armoured Division, by linking up with troops from the V United States Corps advancing northwards from Argentan. The Regiment was to move to Point 104, about three miles due north of Trun, by way of the valley behind the hill overlooking Falaise, east to Morteuax-Coulibeuf, where civilians were met in a battle area for the first time, east to a small road at Barou, down that road to Les-Moutiers-en-Auge, and thence across dirt tracks to the hill-top. Unfortunately direction was temporarily lost among the minor roads and the Command Post went 1000 yards too far, until it had a brush with the troops of the 1st Polish Armoured Division who did not appear to be particular with whom they fought so long as they fought somebody. The Regiment retired to a point near the position allotted to it and halted there for the night; the Poles turned their attention to the South Alberta Regiment.


Source:
R. L. Rogers
History of the Lincoln and Welland Regiment
Anthony Rowe Ltd., Chippenham 1954
pages 154-155
Hmmm,
"… the 1st Polish Armoured Division who did not appear to be particular with whom they fought so long as they fought somebody".




Well, do you know the other cases form the Falaise Gap land battles when, for instance, the Canadian tanks or troops attacked the British tanks or troops or vice versa? Or maybe the US GIs or the French Armoured Division attacked somebody in the Falaise Gap by mistake?

As always I would be grateful for interesting cases and discussion.


Best regards

C.
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Old 30-04-05, 14:45
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John McGillivray John McGillivray is offline
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Default Not in the Falaise Gap, but

The Allies were not the only ones to suffer from “friendly fire”. During Operation Goodwood, Schwere Panzer-Abteilung 503 lost two Tigers to Luftwaffe manned 88’s.

This is from Georges Bernage’s book “The Panzers and the Battles of Normandy” (p. 141-142)

“ ‘I was preparing to advance in the direction of Prieure’. But to do so the Tigers had to defile past the Flak battery at Cagny and its crews, who were experts in aircraft recognition but did not know the difference between the various models of tank. They opened up with everything they had and destroyed two of von Rosen's tanks : Sergeant Major Schonrock's was hit and set on fire by an anti-tank shell, and Sergeant Major Muller's received a hit that went straight through.”

Oops...!
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  #3  
Old 06-05-05, 15:57
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Default

Well, next example. The example in my opinion very sad in common American-Polish military history of the Normandy Campaign period.

Date of action: August 19th, 1944
Time of action: late afternoon
Place of action: Chambois
Units involved: Polish 10th Mounted Rifles Regiment and 10th Dragoons Regiment (both from the 1st Armoured Division) contra US 2nd Battalion, 359th Infantry Regiment, 90th Infantry Division.

For a long time I am researching this problem but nobody wants to tell about this incident too much, neither the Americans nor the Poles. I am working with the Falaise Gap veterans but after 60 years their combat emotions still are too high to describe this incident objectively.

Most likely, according to several Polish descriptions, the Poles did not recognized the Americans correctly and strafed them in field before they entered Chambois. The Americans approached Chambois to close the Falaise Gap between British 21st Army Group and the US 12th Army Group. According to the Polish veterans strafed US troops showed then white flags like the troops that want to capitulate. The Americans deny this information. The US comment below:

Quote:
Originally written by Capt. Laughlin E. Waters

Some material published concerning the action at Chambois states that G Co. approached Chambois in column formation and a white flag. It adds that Polish troops had already taken Chambois. The statements are attributed to one Lt. Karcz of the 10th Polish Dragoons. The statements are untrue in every particular and do great disservice to the memory as well as the conduct of the men in G Co. and other members of the 2nd Bn. who fought valiantly, a number of whom were injured or lost their lives in this action.


Source:
John Colby
War From The Ground Up
Nortex Press, Austin 1991
ISBN 0-89015-844-4
page 233-234
Capt. Laughlin E. Waters was a CO of the G Company mentioned.

Imagine that up to this time the Polish and US veterans from Chambois do not like themselves too much between them. To make matters worse the veterans of both Armed Forces accuse between them of various things.

If somebody knows the US and/or Polish veterans (living in Canada for example) who fought together in Chambois -- you may invite them to this thread of the MLU Forum to tell us more about this incident.


Best regards

C.
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