Bags, Aerial, Wireless Set No.19

[David Dunlop]

This Title, at this point is just a 'Best Guess' thing and quite subject to change. I have attached a photo of the item in question to see if anyone can provide a correct identification.

These used to be fairly common in surplus stores and flea markets a while back, but not so much in the Manitoba area anymore. This particular example is made of a lightweight OD canvas, with the edges and base of the bag reinforced with medium brown leather. It is closed with an OD cotton web set of ties.

Absolutely no makers marks or date stamps to be found anywhere on it and the only stencil is the large red " ZA - CAN 4247 " on the one side close to the opening end of the bag.

Does anyone know country(s) of origin for these bags and what the correct nomenclature would happen to be? Were they issued throughout the entire production history of all Marks of 19-Set, or only for a short while? And I guess the last point of interest would be whether or not it was standard issue for all vehicle installation kits for the 19-Set, or a special order item only issued as needed?


David

[Robert Bergeron]

David,

I have 3-4 of those.

I will take pictures when i go to the shop.

They are marked No 2 MkII , some are canvas some leather / imitation leather .

Cheers.

[Bruce MacMillan]

I have an identical one marked:
bag,aerial gear, No.2 MKII
RCA-110104-1 ZAC8437

These were probably issued with the Truck cum Ground Station kit. They held the 3 F rods.

What's interesting is it doesn't appear in the Canadian equipment lists.

[Tim Bell]

I believe F Rods were also used with the following:

WS18
WS22
WS38

Probably others too... so may not necessarily be for the WS19.

Tim

[Johnny Canuck]

Hello All
I have one with my WS52.Marked faintly ZA - CAN 4247

From WFTW Vol.2
Station List - Wireless Sets Canadian No.52 Vehicle and Ground Station Kit No.2 Set Kit CMC 119-0

Kit No.2 Operating Kit

09 ZA/C 0437 CMC 108-715 Bags Aerial Gear No.2 Mk.II 1 Contains items 10, 11, 12, 13

10 ZA/C 0894 RCA 110074-1.. Antennae Rods "F" Sections No.1 2pcs Bottom
11 ZA/C 0895 RCA 110074-2.. Antennae Rods "F" Sections No.2 2pcs 3rd
12 ZA/C 0896 RCA 110074-3.. Antennae Rods "F" Sections No.3 2pcs 4th (Top)
13 ZA/C 00090 RCA 110103-1 Antennae Rods "F" Sections No.4 2pcs 2nd



Bruce check your number again the 8 is probably a 0

Geoff

PS There is a note in the WS52 Working Instructions that WS9 parts may be substituted for WS52 parts with possible lower performance. Bruce's RCA-110104-1 ZAC0437 number might be WS9 kit.

[Tim Bell]

Would be interested in buying one for my ws9 if correct.


Cheers


Tim

[Bruce MacMillan]

Geoff, Had a better look with my glasses on and it is ZAC0437. This is listed for use with the WS52 and the WS9.

The WS18 and WS38 used the aerial bag MK 3 which had a shoulder sling for carrying as these were manpack sets. The WS22 was never made by Canada so I wouldn't expect to find a Canadian made (ZA-C) part for them.

We haven't answered your query David but will continue to dig. Maybe Chris S. will appear with the answer.

So my bag that c/w 3 F rods is for the WS9... hmmmm.

[David Dunlop]

Interesting where this is going. I had a hunch it might be an item with a similar history to the Satchel Signals Bag, but I was not certain. Probably a bit early in the investigation but we seem to have at least two near identical designed bags with two different stock reference numbers but both serving the same purpose of storing Aerial F Rods. And we now know another version with carry strap exists for the same purpose. You would think that a bag designed for a specific purpose would retain a common inventory number over it's service lifetime, regardless of the Wireless Set it was matched up with, but NOOOO, the designers have to torment us years later.

Neither the Mk III Canadian 19-Set Manual, or the Truck and Ground Installation Manual for the 19-Set reference this bag. The latter seems quite odd. True that at least with the 2Kx Series of 15-Cwt Wireless Trucks, the F-Rod Aerial Sections had their own steel storage tube mounted on the upper left front corner of the Wireless Box so they were within easy reach for the crew when on the roof of the box. But what did they do with the F-Rods if they were humping the 19-Set to a remote work site? We must still be missing something on that point.

Looks like a list of sets using this bag will be in order and with luck we will be able to match up specific stock numbers to specific sets and fill in some more wireless blanks in the process.

Didn't expect an easy answer, Bruce, I was expecting a good tree shaking.


David

[Johnny Canuck]

ZA - CAN 4247
Listed as part of the C19 Canadian High Power.
EMER KZ316 1945 Pg.4



Geoff

[Chris Suslowicz]

Originally Posted by Bruce MacMillan

Geoff, Had a better look with my glasses on and it is ZAC0437. This is listed for use with the WS52 and the WS9.

The WS18 and WS38 used the aerial bag MK 3 which had a shoulder sling for carrying as these were manpack sets. The WS22 was never made by Canada so I wouldn't expect to find a Canadian made (ZA-C) part for them.

We haven't answered your query David but will continue to dig. Maybe Chris S. will appear with the answer.

So my bag that c/w 3 F rods is for the WS9... hmmmm.

This is where it gets interesting, and I think that the British "ZA.0437 Bags, Aerial Gear, No.2 Mk.II" is completely different from the "ZAC.0437 Bags, Aerial Gear, No.2 Mk.II" made in Canada for the WS52. They may have retained the stores code, but the bags are for two completely different masts and not interchangeable.

British "ZA.0437 Bags, Aerial Gear, No.2 Mk.II" is the heavy canvas "golf bag" used with the 34-ft steel mast that is made up of a ground spike, an Insulator, W/T 'B', 8 of the 3-ft Aerial Rods 'D', an adapter, and some 'F' rods.

This bag is not long enough to contain Aerial Rods 'F' as far as I can recall, and was a "multi-purpose part" issued with W.S. 1, 11, 19, 22 and doubtless others. (I can't lay hands on a bag and ruler right now, but I'm sure they're less than 48" long and side opening (with a slit and "bucket type" end caps).

Ah, here we go 1940 VAOS Section Z:

ZA BAGS Aerial gear

0420 A 153 C............
Canvas, with partition and leather bottom;
approx, 2-ft deep and 8-in. wide ; closed at top
with running cord ; used with W.T. sets C,
Mk. I, and C, Mk. II, complete stations

0424 A 2165 Mk. I. .............
B 2430 No. 2 Tent duck, with special fastener and webb
carrying strap ; approx. 41.1/2-in. long x 6-in.
dia. ; used with W.T. sets, A, Mk.II, complete
stations, No. 1 and No. 2, and W.T. sets C, Mk. II
complete stations, Nos. I and II ; Wireless sets,
No. I, complete stations ; Nos. 1A and 1B


0437 B 2430 Mk.II ...........
Webbing, approx. 3-ft. 8-in. long by 6-in int.
dia.; with shoulder strap ; for use with various
wireless sets.

Hopefully this will keep the formatting and not turn into a pigs breakfast!

It doesn't: the web page strips padding, but it's still usable. the "A 2165 and B 2430" are "List of Changes" reference numbers.

Chris.

[Johnny Canuck]

Well upon further research, this is starting to make a little bit of sense.

Original question was re: ZA - CAN 4247
It appears after looking closer at the page I posted earlier that the answer is located there. The 'note' explains that ZA/CAN 0437 is an error, therefore anything with ZA/CAN 0437 should actually read ZA/CAN 4247.

Also note that the British Bag is ZA.0437 and the mistaken Canadian number is ZA/CAN 0437. (*&%#ing minions!!)




D Rod Aerial Set using Bags, Aerial Gear, No.2 Mk.II ZA.0437 (Golf Bag)





Complete D Rod Kit and F Rod Kit number


Componet pieces of D and F Rod Kits


F Rods were not carried in the Golf Bag, it is only 41 1/2 inches long.

Geoff

[Robert Bergeron]

Gents,

Are we talking about these ?

They contain sets of ''F'' rods for a 19 set in the Carrier and a 19 HP set in the Wire 5 truck.

The one on the left is empty. It is in need of a set of ''f'' rods for the 19 in the Jeep.

[Lynn Eades]

What lengths do the "D" set aerial rods come in?
Are they only in 3ft and 4ft or are there other lengths as well?

Geoff, any chance of some detail shots of the insulator at bottom left of your photo?

[Ron Pier]

Here is the insulator from my 'Golf Bag' Ron

[Johnny Canuck]

D Rods:
3' ZA.5341
4' ZA.5342
6' ZA.5343
Dia. is 7/8"

Insulator is posted above:
Insulators W.T. B ZA.4432
Mounted on:
Antenna Rods D Spike ZA.5325



Geoff

[Ed Storey]

Geoff, I hope you have permission from the publisher of the Wireless for the Warrior books or that the material you have posted is your work as you may be breaking copywrite laws by posting scans of the book on the forum.

ED

[Johnny Canuck]

Hello Ed
Yes the internet, the wild west eh!
I did contact Louis seeking written permission.

Basically I'm going with the blurb on his site:
"It is to my opinion not practicable to bar copying or to spoil a photo with an ugly watermark, let alone explicitly forbid the use elsewhere of my photos. As a rule I have no objection to the use of my photos, but I would very much appreciate if at least the source is mentioned (for example: ‘photo by www.wftw.nl’) or to contact me. In most cases I can provide photos of a higher resolution."

I haven't hidden the fact that the information comes from WFTW and therefore should fall under the above blurb.

Anyone serious about WW2 wireless would be advised to purchase a copy(s) of WFTW as they are one of the most complete series of volumes out there on the subject.

Geoff

PS: Louis' note:
"Hello Geoffrey,
Thank you for your email and the slight delay in reply. There is no
objection whatsoever of posting pages from WftW Volume 2 'as long as you don’t
distribute the whole book (just kidding)'.
When there are any questions please drop me a line.

Best regards,

Louis Meulstee PA0PCR
Royal Signals Amateur Radio Society 3663"

Ottersum, Holland

[Tim Bell]

I concur with Geoff.... WFW series are a must if you have a ww2 wireless interest... The books may appear expensive.... But, just consider the cost to obtain this information privately... Comparatively cheap for the info you get.

If you have stuff which does not appear in the books or is different.... Send Louis the data so he can provide an update in the next compendium or note release... In return I find he is always very accommodating if you want to share the material elsewhere.... Though I think he would have an issue if you reproduced the whole book!


Tim

[Ron Pier]

I have VOL 2 and was disappointed that it starts with WS10 and then straight to WS18 missing out WS11 which is of special interest to me. I guess he didn't have sufficient info at the time. I don't know if it's included in one of the other volumes? Ron

[Bruce MacMillan]

Both WS9 and WS11 are in volume 1. Between volumes 1 & 2 most sets are covered.

Volume 3 covers receivers.

Volume 4 is my favorite - clandestine radios.

The compendiums are good for a reference but they don't have the details of the original volumes.

[cletrac (RIP)]

There's one on ebay now. He also has the aerial rods.

[Ron Pier]

Originally Posted by Bruce MacMillan

Both WS9 and WS11 are in volume 1. Between volumes 1 & 2 most sets are covered.

Volume 3 covers receivers.

Volume 4 is my favorite - clandestine radios.

The compendiums are good for a reference but they don't have the details of the original volumes.

Thanks Bruce. I need to buy Vol1. Ron

[Johnny Canuck]

Can we get back to Aerial Cases now that we have covered the legal side?

Geoff