France bans HMV's

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Not only in Kansas - see http://www.milweb.net/News/france/

From another forum>>

This is indeed true and quite worrisome. I spent the week-end at the Paric Antic Car Show and talked with the President of FFVE, the French Federation of Historic Vehicles. This Federation consolidates the 950 historical vehicles (military and civilian) clubs, which represents 15000 collectors. The MVCG (Military Vehicle Collector Group) mentioned in your email is part of the FFVE. The FFVE President is in direct contact with French authorities to address this issue.

Here is the story

A recently enacted law (Nov 2005), called "loi sur la securite interieure" (i.e. interior security law) has organized weapons into 8 groups; from group 8 (collector and historical neutralized arms) to group 1 (missiles and modern military weapons). For reasons still unknown to us, all military vehicles (land, air, sea) are in group 2. This includes, as mentioned in your email, any land vehicle designed for military use (i.e. GMC, Dodge, Jeep, but also Hummers, ...).

French law requires any one who wants to own a group 2 weapon (i.e. 38 or 45 hand guns, rifles,...) to file a demand with the Law Enforcement Authorities. Authorizations are very seldom granted and now most fire arms users join shooting range clubs where they find guns for rent. It is likely that obtaining an Authorization to own a half-track, but also a jeep, will be quite difficult. If authorization is not granted by the end of October 2006, the vehicle must be sold to someone who has the authorization, or turned down to French authorities for destruction.

When the law was initially drafted, it stated that MV could not be used in public roads, except during special cerimonies, with police escort. Fortunately, the FFVE got this issue resolved. But the following requirements remained:
- all vehicles must be kept locked in a secure garage (i.e. no parking in the street unattended)
- extra measures must be taken to prevent anyone starting the vehicle (simple ignition key is not enough)

This law is currently legally challenged by the FFVE, but that's what they have been doing for the last two years with little success. If no resolution is found within the next few months, all our vehicles could end up in museums (sale value close to nothing) or destroyed. The law limits export and import transaction, so selling to a foreign buyer is hardly an option.

This is not good news and we all wait for a law reversal with anxiety. I will let you know more about it.

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Not only in Kansas - see http://www.milweb.net/News/france/

Tabernac! Je suis tres desolee! Les politicians francais sont tres stupide et vrais "tetes de merdes!"




CHEIMOIS!

[Snowtractor]

Originally posted by sapper740
Tabernac! Je suis tres desolee! Les politicians francais sont tres stupide et vrais "tetes de merdes"!

Truly. Though I maintain that people get elected to government to make laws and even when we have enough laws , they will still make more. They have to, they feel that is what they were elected for not to act as shepards and protect our freedoms but to make laws and compress that freedom just a little more. There will not be any revolt while our bellies are full and we have a roof over our head, but when that happens there will be another round of Louis the 16th and Marie Antoinette . Its been happening since the dawn of time it'll happen again as the government tries to squeeze one more something in.
Sean

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Can someone please try to find out why MV's are seen to be a threat? Legislation must have a promoter who's arguments make some sense to those who vote on it. Is it just me, or do you think someone, somewhere has decided MV''s (and their owners, as the vehicles by themselves don't cause much trouble) are not something private citizens should be allowed to have? If not, why not??

The only reasons I can come up with are that anybody who would desire anything military is wrong-headed (army, military is a bad thing only used for war, so wishing to posess anything to do with it must be wrong) or the 'somebodies' promoting this believe anyone with an army truck is a potential terrorist who will use it for some evil act. Could anybody who actually knew what effort MV restorers and owners put out, and how most do it out of respect for their nation and government's military, still promote these laws?

Are there any statistcs, crimes or other unsavory activities anyone can point to that warrant this?

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Bruce Parker
Can someone please try to find out why MV's are seen to be a threat? Legislation must have a promoter who's arguments make some sense to those who vote on it.

Bruce,

This is some piece of legislation that dates back to either 1939 or 1945, cannot remember which, whereby the French public were not allowed to possess any piece of military equipment, be it firearms, vehicles or even gas masks as someone on another forum pointed out. I suppose back then there was no one interested in collecting mv's, they just wanted to get on with their life. This raised its head prior to Normandy 2004, when there were warnings not to take armoured vehicles to France. Some did and had no trouble. I have a friend and client who is into the MV movement in France and I think I am right in saying, that if the vehicles are owned by a museum or club, they may be allowed to keep them for special events.

Richard

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Snowtractor
Truly. There will not be any revolt while our bellies are full and we have a roof over our head, but when that happens there will be another round of Louis the 16th and Marie Antoinette .
Sean

Allow me to paraphrase Marie;


"Laissez-les conduire deux cheveaux-vapeurs!" Tabernac!*





* Actually, ol' Marie wouldn't have used the epithet "Tabernac!" as that is pure Quebecois.

CHIMO!

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally posted by Richard Farrant
Bruce,

This is some piece of legislation that dates back to either 1939 or 1945, cannot remember which, whereby the French public were not allowed to possess any piece of military equipment, be it firearms, vehicles or even gas masks as someone on another forum pointed out. I suppose back then there was no one interested in collecting mv's, they just wanted to get on with their life. This raised its head prior to Normandy 2004, when there were warnings not to take armoured vehicles to France. Some did and had no trouble. I have a friend and client who is into the MV movement in France and I think I am right in saying, that if the vehicles are owned by a museum or club, they may be allowed to keep them for special events.

Richard

Richard, so this a a France thing left over from WW2? (similar to the American re-importation laws) Has there been sign, or is there political will to 're-activate' it?

I wonder if an MV were painted red and had all sorts of modern lighting and chrome on it, if it would still be considered an MV for laws like this. Is it a matter of prejudice against khaki paint and knobby tires?

[sapper740]

If memory serves me correct, the French didn't much like anything military '39-'45 either!


Bien a vous,

Derek Heuring

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Bruce Parker
Richard, so this a a France thing left over from WW2? (similar to the American re-importation laws) Has there been sign, or is there political will to 're-activate' it?

I wonder if an MV were painted red and had all sorts of modern lighting and chrome on it, if it would still be considered an MV for laws like this. Is it a matter of prejudice against khaki paint and knobby tires?

Bruce,

There have been murmers for the last few years on banning private owned armour in France and I know a few instances where the owners of said vehicles have sold the overseas rather hastily. Now it seems, it could also include motor cycles, jeeps, etc., but it may be the the French press has hyped the story up a bit. My basic info is from my friend who attended the meeting of the French classic vehicle federation, a group of around 800 clubs catering for all types of vehicles, and this matter is top of their priority list, so they should hold some sway.

Richard

[Tony Smith]

Could this museum auction in France be a result of those laws passed last year?

[Alex van de Wetering]

A real shame if this process it still going on in France!

Could this museum auction in France be a result of those laws passed last year?

A Comet estimated at 6000 Euros?

[Pedr]

Perhaps we could ask Pascal "mrdodge11" to comment as he both has military vehicles in France and appears to be involved in a club.

RSVP Pascal

Pedr

[Lynn Eades]

Democracy, Where big groups stop little groups from having the choice!
With no evidence what so ever, I wonder if this has its origins with the U.N.?
remember the soldier in the States who ran "amok" in the tank?
Also there is a thread on this forum relating to the state government banning M.Vs from the road some where stateside.

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Lynn Eades

Also there is a thread on this forum relating to the state government banning M.Vs from the road some where stateside.

Check the latest issue of Supply Line. Apparently the Kansas State government has seen the light and will continue to license M.V.'s.


CHIMO!