Reference: C15 s/n 2842129988 history and restoration

[Phil Waterman]

On your floor plates I see that you have drilled a lot of the holes, but not all. Was wondering how you were doing it.

I had to drill a lot of holes as I was replacing the inner frame rails so I wanted something that would drill straight and quick. Looked at one of those nice mag based drill units, to much money, instead I bought a small bench top drill press with a little modification a couple of C-clamps it worked like a dream. Also, set it up to drill up, down or sidewise. Advantage was that I could drill at slower speed but faster because of the spindle pressure, it also made the drills stay sharp longer. http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.com/Tools.html

[rampant rivet]

Hi Phil
I had some of the holes cut for me when the plates were made frome the originals. Will drill the rest of the holes when I make sure they are needed and in the right position I'll take my time with a variable speed hand held drill.

Cheers RR.

[Phil Waterman]

Keep an eye out for one of those small drill presses I think the one I bought was $65 US. Great little tool to clamp up to what needs to be drilled and then just crank the spindle down. I drilled all the holes in the floor plate and frame rails with mine.

I bought mine because I needed a replacement for 3/8 variable speed hand drill that I think burned out trying to drill 1/2 holes.

[T Creighton]

Hi Jeremy, Bob, Ken and others,
What an amazingly well-planned and executed restoration job. Now comes the tricky bit with the cab panels and you asked who else was doing a similar job.
I had to build a complete new angle frame floor to roof and make both frames for the rear window. This was all sandblasted and primed before the skins were fitted. I was able to do this ok and I wanted to do the panel work myself but with no mig welder or experience I decided to take it to a local panelbeater. A real tradesman and the result shows it. He used a method similar to Kens description with the swaged edges to make the joints.
He welded in a dummy frame made from 1”box section to align the roof joint to the upper rear panel and cut it out when the job was done. The roof needed extensive panel work with new drain channels over the doors and lots of rusty holes over the windscreen cut out and patched.
I made the new hatch frame and lid.
Non standard are the angle gussets I just had to put in the corners of the frame and the vertical seams in the back skins. He did this to draw each side together under tension.
For the spot welds he punched evenly spaced holes in the top sheet, marked the hole on the other then dismantled the joint, ground the primer off at each mark (for the mig to work properly) then reassembled it and welded up each hole. Once ground off the weld is invisible. The skins were glued with epoxy resin to parts of the frame and the diagonal braces. It is supposed to be stronger than welding with the advantage of no distortion.
Here are some before and after shots.
Terry

[Bob Carriere]

Beautiful job Terry..... and love that shade of pink!!!!!

do you have more pictures...closeup of the top when the work was done....????

NOt to everyone doing resto work..... take lots of pictures... and then a few more......

Not sure I understand what he did at the top end of the skin where it joins the roof panel.

I love the idea of using special epoxy for the ribbing in the bottom back panel..... would negate any warping from heat.

Question...... how was the bottom and middle angle angle curved to shape....... I propose to cut slits in the angle, heat, bend and reweld with the mig and grind smooth.....
any suggestions....?? Phil Waterman.... how did you do yours??

Thanks Terry

Bob

[T Creighton]

You have the right idea bending the angle Bob

Bob, here you can see the dummy frame inside at the roof joint.
This stopped all sorts of buckling as the roof and top skin were fitted together. Also shows the so called spot welds along the frame above the door.
Once I had the measurements I took the sheet of panel steel to a sheet metal ducting factory and they kindly cut, rolled the curve and then swaged the edges. Top in to go under the roof edge and bottom out to slip over the lower skin when the two halves are bolted together.

Terry
ps are we hijacking RR's excellent thread on his beautiful restoration project????

[Ken Hughes]

yes we are hijacking rampant rivets thread.
r r you are doing a wonderfull job it is a pleasure to see.
some of you may know that i am a panelbeater and am still learning every day.
someone will come up with a new way of doing things that make life easier.
i only wish that i had a camera when i did my cab some years back.

[Phil Waterman]

Originally posted by Bob Carriere
do you have more pictures...closeup of the top when the work was done....????

Hi Bob - I've got to reduce the pictures to post them but will post pictures of fabricating the curved angle iron for the cab back soon.

[Bob Carriere]

....but building on others ideas.....

Not being a professional mechanic or panel beater, I need all the help I can find on MLU.

My view is that we live to learn and learn as long as we live.... and if either stops.... we are dead.

Sheet metal working is probably the most comon weak area for most of us..... mechanical processes you can always be reason out ......BUT...... body work requires a certain artistic " je ne sais quoi"....

....must watch the French lingo... our Aussie friends get all excited when they see French words.....

Please continue to share approaches, techniques, etc.....

BooB

[rampant rivet]

I work as a carpenter and have learned the hard way on my first restoration of a 1940 16 H Norton which I bought in a tea chest aged 19, then progressed on to a Ford gpw Jeep which I spent a year rebuilding from scrap then rebuilt again 10 years later having learned a lot along the way mixed in with a couple of dodge WC's.
Bob's right you never stop learning and this forum has provided lots of help to my latest project.
I'm now picking up valuable info on the restoration of my cab panels.
Do you think that my cab roof should have a gutter running along the top of the doors ?
Do you think I may have a problem in taking on all these projects ?

heres the norton now its a good bike and I enjoy using it when I get the time.

RR.

[T Creighton]

Hi RR.
Looking back at your work so far do you really think you will have a problem with a job that is challenging and will give you satisfaction when done?
I don’t think so.
Have a go at the panelwork and make it like you want it to be.
I am a farmer and will try most things but my hammer would probably put more dents in than it would take out. Oh for that artistic flair that Bob speaks of.
I would be keen to do the next cab all myself but at 69 years the present one might be only one.
Cheers Terry

[Ken Hughes]

hi rr have a go yourself, try panel beating on a simular bit of panel steel first.
a dint on a corner panel can be blocked out first from behind
with a suitable shaped dolly/hammer or whatever you have.
you need to practice on a flat panel with on dolly off dolly blows
block up the dint 90%,hold the dolly under the low point and hammer the high points around the rim of the dint, you should see the rest of the dint raise up as you go.
I should say practice on the same thickness panel steel as
you are going to use try it , but does take practice.

[Phil Waterman]

Originally posted by Bob Carriere
Question...... how was the bottom and middle angle angle curved to shape....... I propose to cut slits in the angle, heat, bend and reweld with the mig and grind smooth.....
any suggestions....?? Phil Waterman.... how did you do yours??

Sorry for the delay in getting back with how I fabricated the curved angle iron top and bottoms for the Pattern 12 finally got all the pictures posted on my site http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/SheetMetalWork.html basically I notched and welded to form a smooth curve.

[Rod Diery]

G'day all, I just found this thread and thought I would put in my 2 bob's worth.

In answer to Bob Carriere's comments about the chassis back in August 2006, it is my theory that GM Canada took a civilian pick up truck chassis of probably US origin and modified it to suit the CMP cab. The C15 chassis measures 36" between the outsides of the frame rails whereas the C15A and every other Chevrolet CMP measures 34" between the outsides of the rails.

You may also note in the pic Jeremy posted of his restored cab floor that the C15 cab has a different shape to the wheel arches. This allows the 9.00-16 tyres fitted to the C15 to clear when at full steering lock. The C15 has a much tighter turning circle than the 4X4 version.

Finally, congratulations to you Jeremy on the standard of you restoration. I have just started restoring my own C15 here and I will be very happy if mine looks like yours when I am done.

regards
Rod
http://users.bigpond.net.au/blitz_trucks/cmp.html

[rampant rivet]

Cheers Rod
Its been a long but very enjoyable project I have the new cab rear panels now and am just waiting for the lower cab frame to be shot blasted before assembly of cab.
Am about to start fitting the wiring loom when it arrives from Vinwire in OZ before final assembly of major components.
Most of the work on the rear GS body is now complete but I need details of storage bins etc fitted to the underside.
If you need any detailed pics feel free to ask, its my birthday on friday and I get to spend the whole day at my workshop the first in a while so I'll add some more pics to this thread as work progresses.
Regarding steel cab panel sheets I just had the basic curved corner shapes formed plus the joggled edges to the topmost panel to allow me to custom fit them to the cab frames I will also cut the hole for the rear window myself to keep costs to a minimum and to ensure accuracy as I saved the old rusty originals.

RR.

[rampant rivet]

Had Friday off work and put it to good use restoring the engine cover etc.

RR.

[rampant rivet]

Heres a shot of the rear upper panel with hole cut ready to plug weld frame in place, the frame is actualy a good inner one that I have reversed and will use as an outer.
The original inner frame of the old cab panel will now become the new inner frame bolted to t'other if you get my gist all I need to find now is the seal in which the sliding panels fit.

Heres the cab panel loosely clamped in place with frame plug welded in position.

RR.

[rampant rivet]

Have started dry fitting seats etc to cab,

had a few spare minutes at work the other day so made some new rifle butt holders for the cab.

RR.

[rampant rivet]

Well having some time off work over Easter has allowed some progress on the C15 after lots of plug welding of cab panels plus repairs to roof I now have a Chev with a roof plus have fitted the spare wheel carrier
Will finish the wiring loom next prior to fitting front body work then the rear body will be lowered onto the chassis hopefully

RR.

[Bob Carriere]

.... I wish I was that far along with my truck........

Couple of questions.....

How come you have helper springs on a C15a....?

On the picture of your new floor plate........ how come the floor plate does not go over the rear floor crossmember section with the screws sticking out...??? how is the floor plate held in place....welded?

On my cab 11 the back wall of the cabin has the angle iron of the wall bolted directly through the floor......... the cab 11 has no seperate floor crossmember as per the 13.....

Just curious........

Bob

[rampant rivet]

Hi Bob
Firstly I think its my turn to compliment you on your restoration of your vehicle I am sure it will turn out to be a very high quality restoration.
Regarding the helper springs, I think this topic has already been covered earlier in this thread.
The springs are fitted as standard on C15's I think, I am not sure of C 15 - A's. My truck is a C15 not C15 - A
Its a different beastie.
The floor plate rests on a plate welded to the underside of cab frame the rear floor plate is then welded underneath to the cab frame.
My 13 cab rear panel frame is bolted through the floor cab frame with one long center bolt going through a spacer into chassis crossmember, the other bolts go through the cab mounting springs, will add some detailed pics when I can.
The rear cab panel frame is bolted directly onto cab floor frame thats the margin you can see in the photo.

Its starting to look familiar now have started to loosely fit the wiring harness before fitting front.

cab view.

RR.

[Rod Diery]

Originally posted by Bob Carriere
.... I wish I was that far along with my truck........

Couple of questions.....

How come you have helper springs on a C15a....?

On the picture of your new floor plate........ how come the floor plate does not go over the rear floor crossmember section with the screws sticking out...??? how is the floor plate held in place....welded?

On my cab 11 the back wall of the cabin has the angle iron of the wall bolted directly through the floor......... the cab 11 has no seperate floor crossmember as per the 13.....

Just curious........

Bob

Hi Bob, All C15s have helper springs on the rear, C15As do not.
The bolts on RR's C15 cab floor are to attach the cab rear panel. The angle on the 13 cab is attached to this panel and not to the floor like your Cab 11.

Cheers
Rod

[Bob Carriere]

.....still learning....

I will have to cut out some good pieces off a cab 11 floor from under the seats to replace a section of the cab 12 that I will be using.....determine to match and preserve the dot and dash pattern of the old floor.

Since the Cab 12 have extra reinforcements with a 5/8 plate under the rear corners and the fact that it is not has eroded by rust.....i.e. pattern is more visible...... I will use the cab 12 floor on the cab 11 truck....... don't tell anyone!!!!!!!

BooB

[Alex van de Wetering]

Hi Jeremy,

Your project is really a joy to look at! Great work and nice to see that you are keeping speed in your restoration.

Alex

[rampant rivet]

Have just fitted the roof hatch to my C15 and think I may be missing part of the frame that the lid sits on I really need some detailed photos of a canadian pattern square hatch open and closed to enable me to fabricate pattern parts.
Am also needing detailed photos of cab steps / frames left and right and battery box for C15 4x2, plus I am desperate for detailed photos and measurements of the stowage bins as fitted to the underside of a wood/ steel composite body.

Any help very much appreciated.

Cheers RR.

[Max Hedges]

Originally posted by rampant rivet
Have just fitted the roof hatch to my C15 and think I may be missing part of the frame that the lid sits on I really need some detailed photos of a canadian pattern square hatch open and closed to enable me to fabricate pattern parts.
Am also needing detailed photos of cab steps / frames left and right and battery box for C15 4x2, plus I am desperate for detailed photos and measurements of the stowage bins as fitted to the underside of a wood/ steel composite body.

Any help very much appreciated.

Cheers RR.

Jeremy if you have a look the soft skin forum on the difference between ford and chev I have added acouple of photoes on steps
Max

[Wayne Henderson]

The part you are missing may be the rubber hip ring/square.

[rampant rivet]

Yes Wayne I think you may be right can anyone post some pictues to allow me to have a copy made.

Max thanks for the steps photos are they from a Ford ? need some of Chev 4x2.

Thanks RR.

[Keith Orpin]

Hi Jeramy,
A while ago in this thread, you asked if you should have rain channels above each door. I would suggest you should have. Having looked at your latest images, you don't seem to have any. They can be made, but not easily, as there are 4 bends to make. If you require any pictures or assistance, please let me know
Keith
P.S. The Matchless is now home and in bits !

[rampant rivet]

Hi Keith
Yes I was thinking about adding rain channels but after removing some postwar C channel stiffeners from the underside top of the door the original roof edge was revealed showing no evidence of a rain gutter hence no gutter on my roof.
Matchless in bits ? shame all this nice biking weather going to waste saying that I am about to remove the tank from my Norton in order to fix a pin hole leak and repaint with the correct C number on the tank.
Good luck with the bike, will probably restore an M 20 or Ariel WNG after recovering from the C 15
The Chev is the last big restoration that I will attempt, not that I havn't enjoyed this project its been a very interesting and enjoyable journey and I've met some very good people along the way, and through this forum have received lots of help and advice not forgetting lots of encouragement. which keeeps you going :-)
With the Jeep and the Norton storage becomes a problem you can never have a big enough shed !! plus the logistics of mantainance being newly married and a mortgage looming on the horizon means I will have limited funds

Cheers RR.