Armoured Carrier, Wheeled - Indian Pattern

[Rob Beale]

The first vehicle just out of shot will be a FAT towing the second limber for each gun in the troop. The next vehicle after the AOP is another FAT towing a limber and gun, (and the third FAT in the troop will be ahead with the second gun and its limber).

Actually limbers are horse drawn, and these are Artillery Trailers No 27!

The convoy shows another AOP near the back and a couple of larger CMPs, likely 60cwt and a single C8AX with its spare wheel on the bumper.

NZ contributed a Field Regiment and a Transport Squadron.

163 Battery lost some of its guns when the Troopship Wahine ran aground and sank off Masela Island in the Arafura Sea north of Australia in 1951.

[Andrew Rowe]

There was a small number of the NZ Pattern Carriers on that ship that sank....lets go diving!

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Rob Beale

163 Battery lost some of its guns when the Troopship Wahine ran aground and sank off Masela Island in the Arafura Sea north of Australia in 1951.

Point of order, the Wahine never sank.

It ran ground on a reef and remained intact and above the high water mark for years, but could not be refloated. It was cut up for scrap by a Japanese salvage company in the 60's.

http://www.aukevisser.nl/others/id918.htm
https://www.navy.gov.au/hmas-emu

I wonder if the 25Pdrs and LPOP's re-appeared during Konfrontasi?

1461463103288.jpg 22252-max.jpg

[Lynn Eades]

As you know Tony, we have / had more than one Wahine.

For those from elsewhere:
Wahine definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionarywww.collinsdictionary.com › dictionary › wahine
Wahine definition: (esp in the Pacific islands) a Polynesian or Māori woman, esp a girlfriend or wife.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

As you know Tony, we have / had more than one Wahine.

Absolutely, and there is NO WAY I would get on ANY ship named the Wahine. Too damn risky.

Saying that, I have been aboard the SS or HMNZHS Maheno a few times, the gallant Gallipoli Hospital ship that is sadly wholly unrecognised for it's sterling service.

[Mike Cecil]

Not a lot of point salvaging a gun without a breech block and firing mechanism. Then there is the ammunition to be supplied.

Very nice shot of the NZ Army in Korea with their 25-pdrs and 'Trailers, Artillery, No.27 Mk.1'. Each Section of two guns had a trailer behind the tractor, and a third tractor towing two trailers as shown (as Rob said before), therefore providing each gun in the Section with two trailers worth (64 rounds) of ready-use ammunition. The two trailers were differentiated by the different loads each carried, apart from the ammunition load of 32 rounds, in 16 trays of 2 complete rounds (projectile and cartridge) in each.

Sub-Section = 1 gun & trailer & tractor
Section = two guns, three tractors, four trailers (2 x Sub-Sections)
Troop = four guns, six tractors, eight trailers. (2 x Sections)
Battery = 8 guns, 12 tractors, 16 trailers (2 x Troops)
Regiment = 24 guns, 36 tractors, 48 trailers (3 x Battery)

Mike

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Not a lot of point salvaging a gun without a breech block and firing mechanism. Then there is the ammunition to be supplied.

A lot of scrounging was going on by both sides of that conflict. The Indonesian army did not have a lot of resources, and the Netherlands Government's purchasing of military equipment was curtailed as the United Nations felt it was appropriate that Indonesia claimed independence. E.g.: the Netherlands Government had to buy vehicles direct from civilian sources, like Willys CJ jeeps and all-wheel drive trucks from Marmon-Herrington.

Combining parts and supplies from various sources could have made the guns functioning again. But without further anecdotal evidence, chances are they were scrapped by the Japanese salvage company along with the ship.

[Mike Cecil]

Hanno, I'd put the salvage and use of 25-pdrs from the Wahine in the highly doubtful category. Removing the breech block means also removing the breech block buffer, striker case, and firing mechanism, all of which would need to be 'found' to reassemble the gun into working order, then locating sufficient of the correct cartridges and projectiles. Not saying it couldn't happen, of course, just that it was highly unlikely.

Tony, I agree with you that HMNZHS Maheno's service and the ship's AIF connection is not well known. The ship's service, plus that of its younger but larger sibling HMNZHS Marama, was from mid-1915 to mid-1919. The AIF connection is mainly the treatment and transport of wounded from the ANZAC beachhead to hospitals in Egypt and Malta. Some were DOW en route and were buried at sea in the Med. Maheno went on to become an ambulance transport between Europe and the UK, so is likely to have transported AIF wounded during that phase as well.

Mike

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

I wonder if the 25Pdrs and LPOP's re-appeared during Konfrontasi?

Good question! It seems the 25-pdr guns, less breech blocks, were left on the ship. I would not be surprised to learn the Indonesian army managed to get them off the ship and put them back into use during the battle for independence. Though looking at the location of the Masela Island, it may have been too far out of their way. In that case the Japanese salvage company found some nice heavy scrap on board...


From http://www.nzmaritime.co.nz/wahine1.htm (my bold):

Salvage attempts were unsuccessful and the vessel was abandoned as a total loss. However, as the vessel was carrying a number of 25 Pounder artillery guns for 16th Forward Regiment and in view of the unrest then prevailing in nearby Indonesia, steps were taken by the army to remove the breech blocks from the guns on board. Masters of company vessels passing through that area for many years thereafter reported Wahine was still "high and dry" on Masela Island.

From https://www.navy.gov.au/hmas-emu (my bold):

On 16 August 1951, the 4436 ton New Zealand troopship Wahine, carrying 575 troop reinforcements bound for Korea, grounded on a reef near Masela Island some 250 miles north of Darwin. A passing oil tanker, Stanvac Karachi, rescued the troops and crew, ferrying them safely to Darwin. Left behind, however, was a salvageable cargo, estimated to be worth somewhere between £20,000-£50,000, comprising military equipment and stores. A few hours after the grounding, Emu’s then captain, Lieutenant Commander John Toulouse, RANVR, flew over Wahine in an RAAF aircraft to assess the situation with a view to establishing whether the vessel might be pulled clear. He observed that almost half of Wahine’s length had passed over the reef, correctly concluding that the ship was lost. The following day Toulouse received orders to proceed to the stricken ship with instructions to recover what equipment he could. Emu’s crew subsequently removed all arms, ammunition, equipment and canteen stores along with 25 percent of the crew’s and troop’s baggage. As Emu left the scene, hundreds of Masela Islanders could be scene descending on the vessel. Following a return visit to the Wahine, Lieutenant Commander Toulouse reported the vessel as being in a desolate state having been systematically looted of all remaining cargo and fittings.

From https://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-ti...opship-wahine:

Even before all the troops had left the ship, natives from neighbouring islands were already climbing aboard to see what they could get their hands on.

He [Ivan Dawson] believes the weaponry was removed from the boats to prevent it falling into the wrong hands.

After that, natives from the neighbouring islands were free to raid it after it was abandoned.