Ford V8 generator- self exciting?

[Darrin Wright]

I want to mount my generator on my engine and run the engine with the belts on to bed in the water pumps. Without the charging circuit connected (at this stage).
Is the generator self exciting or does it need a sense current/wire?

If it is self exciting I have problems, but if it requires a sense current then I may be able to get away with this without having to wire up the charging side of things.

Please help.....

[motto]

If you're talking about the original generator it must be able to be run disconnected with no ill effects otherwise the regulator would serve no purpose. It's the regulator that controls the field current either by varying the earthing for or the power supplied to the windings. Either way, no connection = no output.
No doubt someone will speak up if I have it wrong.

David

[Mike Kelly]

Hi

You will not have any problem . The gene will just spin around without generating any power . As Dave wrote, it requires an external regulator in order to supply the field coils with current .

[Lynn Eades]

Not so sure.
An alternator does not have magnets in it and requires battery voltage to get the alternator charging.
A generator turned fast enough, will generate electricity enough to power the standard ignition system, from a completely dead battery ( 0 volts with a tow start)because the field coils are wound around soft iron pole shoes which contain residual magnetism. This magnetism is enough to excite (start) the generator.
I am not sure about the two brush geny, but the carrier manual (see picture below) states damage will happen, and advises the removal of the third brush in the three brush geny if you want to run the engine with the geny fitted, and not wired up properly.

[Mike Kelly]

I may be wrong but with these old 2 brush genes - When the generator is not connected to any external power supply , the tiny amount of magnetism in the pole pieces isn't enough to generate anything more than a miniscule amount of power . Mike

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Darrin

Agree with Lynn that there is a potential for a problem running a generator with nothing connected to it. I have seen the same warning in other automotive and truck manuals of the period.

I have run generators on while testing engines with out connecting them, but then I remember the admonitions not to do that. But it has never damaged a generator.

Maybe you could consider putting a 12v light bulb or other load on the gen to provide a dummy load and also give you an indication that it is generating power. Or even putting a volt meter on the generator out put and if you start seeing voltage stop.

Cheers Phil

[motto]

Third brush generators are a horse of a different colour being a more primitive system in not using a regulator only an RCR as I understand it. I'm very surprised to learn that this system was used on carriers as it is nowhere near as flexible as the conventional two brush regulated system which I would be fairly certain is what Darrin's carrier will have.

Always had my doubts about Fraud products.

David

[Darrin Wright]

I thought I may have to look inside the generator to see if it is a 2 or 3 brush type.
But taking the easier option, I connected everything up, bought a new 12V battery, made a phone call to a friend as to how to wire up the ignition (now running a remote coil and lost the wiring instructions).
Engine is now running in the hull, placed a digital multimeter across the 2 terminals on the generator and nothing. No voltage reading.

So will continue to run the engine, it is very quite with an exhaust system fitted with mufflers (as opposed to running straight out the manifolds).
It blows a bit of black smoke, I think this is an over fuelling/tuning issue.

My next question may be, how to tune/adjust the idle evenly on the V8...

[Phil Waterman]

Hi


Are all carriers 12 volt?

Glad to hear the engine is running good and quiet. Just out of curiosity how closes is your nearest neighbor? A flathead at full song with open pipes can be an assume sound.

My caution in running a generators with no load is based not on having burned one out but from not having to worry about that when trying to get regulator and generator to produce power.

Keep us posted.

Cheers Phillips

[Darrin Wright]

Australian BGC were 6V. The engine that I found is a BGC engine retro fitted to a 1951 Ford truck.
I think the electrics were upgraded to 12V at some point as the starter will not turn on 6V under load, but turns freely on 12V.
During recovery I forgot to get the regulator and other minor electrical items.

My neighbour is about 80m away, they have not been too friendly of late, so a little bit of music within the EPA timeline for making noise was not unjustified.
It was sweet music, better that a 6V53 GM out of the manifolds...

[John Mackie]

In 1951 Ford started using Luca 6 volt electrics.
Ford did make some 12 volt vehicles but very very rare untill the change to 12 volts in 1956.
If your starter and gene are Lucas they will have the model a date and 6 or 12 volts samped on the case.
The Lucas starter will interchange with the FOrd even though the drive is different.
The Lucas and the Ford 8BA gene were attatched to the mounting bracket with a band.the brackets are differenr becausec of the diamater of the case. you can use the single pulley 21A gene or one of the double pullry genies insrtead.
The Ford 2 brush genies can be modified to 12 V by using the case and field coils from an early falcon or late 62 or 63 truck . there is no need to change the armateur.
If the starter is 6V and wont crank on 6 volts make shure that the ends of the field case and end plate are clean and thaT THE END PLATE IS NOT DISTORTED due to over tightening the through bolts.Also check that the brush wires are making goodelectrical contact with the end plate.
John.

[Lynn Eades]

John, the wartime 6 volt Lucas geny can easily be converted to 12 volt because the field coils are the only things that need changing. The 6 volt armature works for 12 volt. The 6 and 12 volt cases will inter change as they are exactly the same dimensions.
Darrin, the Ford 3 brush geny will have a cut out (round thing) mounted on top of it.
The 2 brush geny has a separate regulator (it also has a cut out in it)

[Andrew Rowe]

One obvious thing is to upgrade the 6V regulator to a 12V one when you do this conversion.

[Ron Pier]

My carrier was converted to a 12 volts starter before I acquired it. I then had to convert the rest as I prefer the way it spins over on 12v. I had the help of an old guy Andy, who worked for Joe Lucas for most of his life. I have the standard 6v dynamo with no conversion and a 12 volt regulator and coil. I changed all the bulbs and Andy made resistors for the gauges. However I've never had the fuel gauge working? My system charges perfectly.

I note also that lots of guys who convert their Jeeps to 12v. Do so by still using the original dynamo and starter. I'm told that the shear size of these components will stand up to it?

Ron

[rob love]

I run my carrier in 6 volt but with a separate 12 volt battery that provides power to the original 6 volt starter. The 6 volt starter will handle that voltage without issue. The draw on the 12 volt battery is so minor that I may have to re-charge it once over the summer and once before putting it away for the winter.

The rest of the carrier remains in it's original 6 volt configuration. Because there is no load on the 6 volt system during starting, combined with the speed of the starter being fed 12 volts, the carrier will usually start with a quick jog of the starter switch.