Were all Universal carriers 6V?

[Asbjørn]

Hello
I'm working on a carrier with a 12V system that I'm wondering if is original, I can't find any info about any other 12V carriers online, and the manual I have for a Mk. III only mentions 6V.

The carrier in question is a U.C. No-2 Mk. II made in December 1944 according to the data plate.

Thanks
Asbjørn

[chris vickery]

6 volt
only

[rob love]

There was a very short 12 volt system which ran from the battery box to the radio. But the batteries were either exchanged or charged with a Johnson chorehorse generator. The vehicle chassis itself was 6 volt.

[Michael R.]

Positive ground, 6 volt.


As you are working on a NO-2 MKII, or a NO-2 MKII*, the factory standard was as Chris and Rob indicated, 6V. Not to say it was not modified after service . . . does it have the original electrics and engine?
Some pictures will be helpful.

Asbjørn , what is the correct data plate number? NO-2 MKII, or NO-2 MKII*. What is the Contract letter and number? I suspect it is either CD 2609, built Dec 1944, or SM 1447.

[Asbjørn]

Thanks for all your help. It does have the original engine (with 16 miles on the meter). The generator looks original, the coil has been replaced with an external one, did all carriers come with the "divers helmet" style distributor with internal coil?

Here's some pictures:

[Michael R.]

Asbjørn: the carrier is a NO-2 MKII* as manufactured at Ford Canada, in Windsor, Ontario for a British contract, SM 1447. As such, the "T" War Department number on the exterior is likely correct.
It appears you have a standard generator, generator cut-out, and "diver's helmet" style distributor, correct for the C81 engine installed in the series C31UCW carrier. Hopefully the after market coil is 6V?


Very nice original engine tag! A swell looking MKII* C31UCW.



BTW: Serial number 29778 ... amazing! This partially clarifies/supports how the production numbers may have related to either the serial number or hull number.
As the serial number is over the Milestone final production number of 28988, perhaps the CB upper hull number(s) like 28739 is the factory guideline?
If you can please tell me the lower hull number off the angle iron supporting the rear vertical armour, bottom left hand side, that would be excellent.

About the original Ford style coil:
You can go back to an original coil, rebuilt with modern components and a three year guarantee for about $75.00 USD plus shipping. You would send the original coil to Skip Haney, in Punta Gorda, Florida, USA. If you do not have one, and want one, I will give you one as a donation to the museum.

http://www.fordcollector.com/coils.htm

[chris vickery]

The diver's helmet style distributor is typical for the UC.
One of the main reasons of ignition failure on the flathead engine is due to overheating of the coil, which UCs were particularly prone to. The distributor being placed so low on the engine and tucked down in behind the rad lent plenty of opportunity for coil failure.
Old coils are especially bad, throw the original away and buy a reproduction.
Many guys opt for a remote coil with an adaptor plate which fits the diver's helmet style distributor.
Optionally, you can use the crab style distributor which already comes equipped with a remote mount coil. You must change the timing cover plate to accept the crab type as the mounting is different from the diver's type.
The diver helmet was used on the 37-41 flathead motor, the crab went 42-48 and the common modern type was used on the 49-53 model.
The upgrade to the crab was a result of the diver helmet type being problematic, hence Ford's solution with the crab style.
The UC restored to spec uses only the diver helmet type as far as I know. I do not think that they were ever updated to use the crab type unless someone else knows better...

[rob love]

As Micheal notes, the serial numbers are quite interesting, as is the engine tag. I have never seen one of those before.

The Hull no 28739 would fit roughly fit in with a carrier built a month before the end of production. Production by that point had slowed, so 250 in a month, and over Christmas, would seem about right. Not sure I understand how the serial number got higher than the known production number though.

[Asbjørn]

Originally Posted by Michael R.

Asbjørn: the carrier is a NO-2 MKII* as manufactured at Ford Canada, in Windsor, Ontario for a British contract, SM 1447. As such, the "T" War Department number on the exterior is likely correct.
It appears you have a standard generator, generator cut-out, and "diver's helmet" style distributor, correct for the C81 engine installed in the series C31UCW carrier. Hopefully the after market coil is 6V?

Very nice original engine tag! A swell looking MKII* C31UCW.


BTW: Serial number 29778 ... amazing! This partially clarifies/supports how the production numbers may have related to either the serial number or hull number.
As the serial number is over the Milestone final production number of 28988, perhaps the CB upper hull number(s) like 28739 is the factory guideline?
If you can please tell me the lower hull number off the angle iron supporting the rear vertical armour, bottom left hand side, that would be excellent.

About the original Ford style coil:
You can go back to an original coil, rebuilt with modern components and a three year guarantee for about $75.00 USD plus shipping. You would send the original coil to Skip Haney, in Punta Gorda, Florida, USA. If you do not have one, and want one, I will give you one as a donation to the museum.

http://www.fordcollector.com/coils.htm

Thanks, the T-number is correct, I have attached a picture of the number stamped on the front armour.
The coil is probably 12v, the carrier is 12v negative ground. Not sure about the generator and starter. The instruments seem to work, except the temperature gauge. A 6v starter should work with 12v, but the generator must have been replaced with a 12v unit or modified. I will need to have a closer look at them.

I have also attached a picture of the lower hull number.

Thank you for the tip about coil refurbishment. We really appreciate the the generous donation of your coil, we will of course pay for the shipping.

Asbjørn

Originally Posted by chris vickery

The diver's helmet style distributor is typical for the UC.
One of the main reasons of ignition failure on the flathead engine is due to overheating of the coil, which UCs were particularly prone to. The distributor being placed so low on the engine and tucked down in behind the rad lent plenty of opportunity for coil failure.
Old coils are especially bad, throw the original away and buy a reproduction.
Many guys opt for a remote coil with an adaptor plate which fits the diver's helmet style distributor.
Optionally, you can use the crab style distributor which already comes equipped with a remote mount coil. You must change the timing cover plate to accept the crab type as the mounting is different from the diver's type.
The diver helmet was used on the 37-41 flathead motor, the crab went 42-48 and the common modern type was used on the 49-53 model.
The upgrade to the crab was a result of the diver helmet type being problematic, hence Ford's solution with the crab style.
The UC restored to spec uses only the diver helmet type as far as I know. I do not think that they were ever updated to use the crab type unless someone else knows better...

Thanks for the info, as this is a museum piece, we want it to appear as original as possible. We will go for a refurbished coil in it's original location on the distributor.

[ajmac]

British UCs had the Lucas distributor installed, see page 213 of universal Carriers vol1, not sure when that started. Page 39 of new vanguards Universal Carrier 1936-48 shows a Flathead being lifted out/in of a mk2* and it has the crab distributor....once over in Europe anything went to keep them running and in action.

[rob love]

Pretty sure the mechanics would far prefer dealing with the remote mounted coil as opposed to the dual cap style, especially in a carrier. Both were available and interchangeable....I know which one I would have installed when the opportunity presented itself.

While the manual only shows the one, I have seen either style come off relics over the years.

[Lynn Eades]

Rob, did you mean the divers helmet type? As you would know, the Crab has a remote coil already.
Alastair, I would have thought that by the time of D day the supply of Lucas type dizzys would have been sorted, along with REME's familiarity and favour with them, just as I think the RCEME would have favoured the Divers helmet type that they were used to.

[rob love]

Yep...typed faster than I was thinking. I'll amend the post and deny it ever happened.