Loyd TSC markings?

[Peter Mason]

I'm rebuilding a Loyd tracked starter charger and was wondering how they were attached to an armoured division?
I plan to mark it up as 11th armoured but don't know if they would be part of an armoured regiment or REME.
There doesn't seem to be many pictures of starter chargers about.
Peter.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Peter Mason

I'm rebuilding a Loyd tracked starter charger and was wondering how they were attached to an armoured division?
I plan to mark it up as 11th armoured but don't know if they would be part of an armoured regiment or REME.
There doesn't seem to be many pictures of starter chargers about.
Peter.

Welcome to forum, and condolences on succumbing to the green disease.

I don't recognize the term starter charger. In the NW Europe Canadian context there were trucks with battery chargers and replacement batteries for the gun tanks. My big book of all things intelligent gives them as, Truck, 15-cwt Battery Charging + Trailer, 20-cwt Workshop Servicing, located in Headquarters Squadron's Administrative Echelon. Like any other fitter's vehicle, they'd move forward as requested to get a tank with dead batteries going. This was of course in the days before the invention of jumper or slave cables.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Peter,

Welcome; very interesting vehicle to have!
I presume you already have these, but just to be sure...there is a couple of pics and stowage diagrams of the TS&C in Nigel Watson carrier books, but sadly no markings can be seen. And I think I remember seeing a picture of one from the rear, but I can't remember where....

@ Terry; the Tracked Starting and Charging Loyd carrier was used to help start up tank in armoured units....and charge batteries obviously.

[Peter Mason]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

Welcome to forum, and condolences on succumbing to the green disease.

I don't recognize the term starter charger. In the NW Europe Canadian context there were trucks with battery chargers and replacement batteries for the gun tanks. My big book of all things intelligent gives them as, Truck, 15-cwt Battery Charging + Trailer, 20-cwt Workshop Servicing, located in Headquarters Squadron's Administrative Echelon. Like any other fitter's vehicle,
they'd move forward as requested to get a tank with dead batteries going. This was of course in the days before the invention of jumper or slave cables.

They are based on a Loyd carrier with PTO driven 12 & 30 volt dynamos and equipment to maintain batteries. The 12 volt dynamo used for charging batteries and the 30 volt dynamo with a battery bank used for jumping vehicles. They carried 2 sets of 15ft slave leads, one set with probes to contact the battery terminals and one set with a plug, some tanks had sockets to plug directly into the electrical system. I have seen pictures of them in NW Europe mainly lined up if field's late/post war but I can't see the markings.

[tankbarrell]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

This was of course in the days before the invention of jumper or slave cables.

Not so, British tanks and US too a little later had slave starting sockets during the War. Loyd TSC carriers came with slave leads to suit these sockets.

[Alex van de Wetering]

From

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7801

"Officers of the Essex Regiment with a newly-assembled Loyd CTSC Tracked Starting and Charging Carrier, England, 27 January 1944 (L-R): Lieutenants R.S. Willis, F.A. Knight
Source: LAC - PA-188967 "

[Peter Mason]

[QUOTE=Alex van de Wetering;285053]Peter,

Welcome; very interesting vehicle to have!
I presume you already have these, but just to be sure...there is a couple of pics and stowage diagrams of the TS&C in Nigel Watson carrier books, but sadly no markings can be seen. And I think I remember seeing a picture of one from the rear, but I can't remember where....

Thanks, It's certainly something different but there's not much information about them.
I do have Nigel Watson's carrier books and a copy of a parts book but I can't recall seeing a picture of one with the markings.
Also there are official storage pictures of the Loyd Tracked Towing for both the 6lb gun and 4.2" mortar, but I've never seen any for the starter charger.

[Alex van de Wetering]

I do have Nigel Watson's carrier books and a copy of a parts book but I can't recall seeing a picture of one with the markings.

Peter...no sorry, no visible markings I'm afraid...but maybe more will turn up. Attached are two IWM pictures, that are also published in Nigels books.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205509348
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205509347

The Stowage sketches for the TS&C are in Nigels volume no1.....and I think they can also be found here on the forum.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by tankbarrell

Not so, British tanks and US too a little later had slave starting sockets during the War. Lloyd TSC carriers came with slave leads to suit these sockets.

Where is the slave cable socket on an M4? I've never heard it mentioned before, and I just read over the M4 Sherman Minutae site researching M4A2 Tank "Bomb" for the wikipedia page.

[tankbarrell]

Terry, when it was introduced, it was put in a new box with the two master switches which were moved up from the battery box closer to the driver's left shoulder.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Thanks for the correction on my misapprehension, and for the details. I even received a photo privately.

[tankbarrell]

That's a switchbox from a late tank but the socket is the same in all US tanks. British tanks and hence the Loyd slave lead used a rectangular socket in the main switchbox.

[ajmac]

The item in question:

[simon king]

Pete,

Here is IWM film of elements of 8th AB entraining at Newmarket for the south coast in preparation for D-Day.

https://film.iwmcollections.org.uk/record/2170

Amongst the vehicles is a Loyd TS&C (confirmed by census number) which carries the same markings as the Shermans, Valentines and Crusader AAs- ie Div/Brigade sign, AoS square with unit number and Squadron sign

As an aside, interesting to see the 17 Pdrs on the Fireflies covered by tarps.

Simon

[Alex van de Wetering]

Originally Posted by simon king

Pete,

Here is IWM film of elements of 8th AB entraining at Newmarket for the south coast in preparation for D-Day.

https://film.iwmcollections.org.uk/record/2170

Amongst the vehicles is a Loyd TS&C (confirmed by census number) which carries the same markings as the Shermans, Valentines and Crusader AAs- ie Div/Brigade sign, AoS square with unit number and Squadron sign

As an aside, interesting to see the 17 Pdrs on the Fireflies covered by tarps.

Simon

Interesting find Simon! The video seems to show the same location and group as the pictures posted above and in Nigels book.

[Peter Mason]

Originally Posted by simon king

Pete,

Here is IWM film of elements of 8th AB entraining at Newmarket for the south coast in preparation for D-Day.

https://film.iwmcollections.org.uk/record/2170

Amongst the vehicles is a Loyd TS&C (confirmed by census number) which carries the same markings as the Shermans, Valentines and Crusader AAs- ie Div/Brigade sign, AoS square with unit number and Squadron sign

As an aside, interesting to see the 17 Pdrs on the Fireflies covered by tarps.

Simon

Thanks Simon.
The second Loyd is a starter charger as it has the pioneer tools on the front. It looks to be marked 994 which should be 4/7th Royal Dragoons Guards of the 8th independent armoured brigade. Most of the vehicle's look to be marked 994 but did see a Sherman towards the end marked 996 which should be Nottinghamshire Yeomanry.
Peter

[Neil Ashley]

I think these vehicles are most likely to be manned by unit trades men rather than the REME LAD which was limited in size. You can check the establishment for a Tank Regiment LAD but I would be surprised if it includes Loyd Carriers.

[simon king]

Originally Posted by Peter Mason

Thanks Simon.
The second Loyd is a starter charger as it has the pioneer tools on the front. It looks to be marked 994 which should be 4/7th Royal Dragoons Guards of the 8th independent armoured brigade. Most of the vehicle's look to be marked 994 but did see a Sherman towards the end marked 996 which should be Nottinghamshire Yeomanry.
Peter

The SRY Sherman with a vice bolted on the front must be a Sherman ARV.