White M3A1 AOP Windshield and Door armour

[Big D]

Gidday all,

I am in the process of getting some repro armour made for the doors and front windshield of my scout car. I have some wooden templates of the size of the armour. I also have a few drawings showing some of the dimensions for both doors and windshield.

I should be able to figure out the hinge mounting holes without any problems by just fitting the templates into place. However, I don't have the dimensions for the placement of the viewing ports and their mounting holes on either the the doors or the windshield armour, or the windshield armour prop rod hole placement on the windshield armour.

Would anyone have some access to a plan or could send me some dimensions for these please?

From what I can see on the windshield armour, the slot for the windshield wipers is at the centre point of the where the viewing ports are located. Can someone confirm please?

Could someone please give me the actual measurements for the windshield wiper slots and the height of the viewing ports?

I have the dimensions of the viewing ports on the windshield and door armour as 8" by 3 1/2" with a 1" radius on the corners. What is the height of the viewing port on the windshield armour and the door armour?

Any assistance would be appreciated.

[lynx42]

G'day Darryl,

If you haven't had your door shields made as yet, then I have original Aussie AOP door shields on my USA White Scout Car. I know that they are not correct but have done me well for 28 years.

If you are able to locate a pair of original USA uncut door armour, them I am happy to do a swap. That might be a better way out than having some un-original ones made.

Let me know your thoughts.

regards Rick.

[Andrew]

I have an m2a1 halftrack, not sure if those dimensions will help you?

Originally Posted by Big D

Gidday all,

I am in the process of getting some repro armour made for the doors and front windshield of my scout car. I have some wooden templates of the size of the armour. I also have a few drawings showing some of the dimensions for both doors and windshield.

I should be able to figure out the hinge mounting holes without any problems by just fitting the templates into place. However, I don't have the dimensions for the placement of the viewing ports and their mounting holes on either the the doors or the windshield armour, or the windshield armour prop rod hole placement on the windshield armour.

Would anyone have some access to a plan or could send me some dimensions for these please?

From what I can see on the windshield armour, the slot for the windshield wipers is at the centre point of the where the viewing ports are located. Can someone confirm please?

Could someone could give me the actual measurements for the windshield wiper slots and the height of the viewing ports?

I have the dimensions of the viewing ports on the windshield and door armour as 8" by 3 1/2" with a 1" radius on the corners. What is the height of the viewing port on the windshield armour and the door armour?

Any assistance would be appreciated.

[Big D]

Gidday Rick,

I haven't got anything made up as yet so that is a tempting offer - thanks. My only problem is that I am hoping to get the vehicle ready for a show in 3 months so it doesn't leave me much time to find some originals. Do you mind if I keep this in mind as an option?

Thanks.

[Big D]

Hi Andrew

I am pretty sure much of the armour on the M2A1 halftrack is the same as that on the M3A1 scout car. Maybe someone else can confirm?

Otherwise, could I send you the outer dimensions of the door and windshield and see if they are the same as yours?

Thanks.

[motto]

Hi Darryl, I have a windshield armour plate that l hope is not too inaccessible, it's in amongst a pile of stuff. I'll see if I can hook it out and get the measurements for you.

From what I know of half tracks I believe there is very little that will fit the scout car although it looks the same.

David

[Big D]

Hi David

Thanks for that. Much appreciated.

[Big D]

Hey Andrew

I've confirmed what David has said in that the halftrack armour is different to the scout car.

Sorry to waste your time.

Thanks.

[Andrew]

No Prob, im going out to work on her today, so i wouldnt have gone outta my way. If you need anything else that may be the same, just ask

Andrew

Originally Posted by Big D

Hey Andrew

I've confirmed what David has said in that the halftrack armour is different to the scout car.

Sorry to waste your time.

Thanks.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Big D

I've confirmed what David has said in that the halftrack armour is different to the scout car.

I find that hard to believe, seeing the design and production of both the Scout Car and Half Track was done by White?!?

Whatever, ignore my remark as I am no specialist on this subject and cannot contribute with measurements etc.

H.

[Lynn Eades]

Hanno maybe the design was "improved" as there were a few years between the first production of each. Correct?

[motto]

Ok Darryl, I've got the windshield armour out and still have all my fingers and toes so here are some measurements. More to follow as I work out exactly what you want.
All references are assuming the armour is standing upright on its lower edge.
This piece of armour is thicker than that used on most of the hull being 1/2 " thick or possibly a few thousandths of an inch less.
Basic dimensions are 13-1/4 " top to bottom.
62-7/8 " across the top.
60 " across lower edge.
Top edge is square. Lower edge is beveled at an angle of 55 degrees inclusive. i.e. 35 degrees from square with the 'chisel' edge on the front face.
Distance between view ports, from the nearest edge of one to the nearest edge of the other 32". View ports as stated are 8" X 3-1/2".
Wiper slots are 1/2" wide X 1" top to bottom. This puts the centre of the radius at 3/4" up from the lower edge of the visor as the top of the slot is radiused. (1/4" radii).
The wiper slot is also counter bored on the rear face with a square ended tool 7/8" diameter to a depth of .230". This is a circular counter bore only and uses the same centre point as the upper radius, the step is not milled down to the end of the slot.
Distance of wiper slots centre to centre is 34-1/2". They are NOT centred below the view ports.
More to come

David

[Big D]

Hi David

Wow! Thanks for that. That is great. I'll start putting a sketch together.

I managed to lay my hands on some plans for the windshield and door armour for the half track. Like you say they are different. The measurements you've given me for the windshield are close to the halftrack windshield. The halftrack windshield armour is a little wider at 63 29/32". The shape of the folding door armour is quite different though and is flat along the top whereas the scout car is sloping. From what I can see though the viewing ports look to be the same.

By the way - how heavy was that windshield armour? Would it be a one person job to fit or does it need two?

Thanks again.

Cheers.

[motto]

Hi Darryl
This should just about complete the requirements for the windshield armour.
Upper edge of view ports are 5-3/4" below top edge of the plate.

A vertical line drawn through the centres of the bolt holes for the view port block guides measures as being 1-3/32" beyond each end of the view port opening.
Centres for these holes are 3-3/4" and 8" below the upper edge.

The three support strut hole centres are 11-1/4" below the top edge.
If a line is drawn through the centres of the three holes and carried on to the edges of the plate, the outer two hole centres are 5-1/8" in from either end. The third hole is NOT on centre,it is offset to the right. Its centre is 27-1/4" from the r/h edge and 33-1/4" from the l/h edge.
These holes are .515" diameter X .250 deep. Bottom of holes are flat, not pointed.

One person can carry the windshield armour but to install it on the vehicle it may be wise to have somebody assist, particularly if everything is already painted. I would suggest that the three hinges be secured to the visor first so as it could then be placed on the vehicle in the down position and maybe a ratchet strap put right around it to stop it sliding down the scuttle.

Tomorrow, if conditions allow, I will take some door armour measurements.

David

[motto]

Hanno and Lynn

The differences between the White Scout Car and Half Track armour can probably be explained by differences in the mechanical components used on the two vehicles. Larger engine needed larger engine bay. Tracks instead of wheels on the rear may have dictated a wider hull. Length of track unit meant longer arches resulting in narrower front doors (about 6" from memory).

I would be fairly sure that's what it's about.

David

[Andrew]

I used an engine hoist to remove mine, used a strap thru gun/sight ports, removed it by myself that way, and will install it that way. BTW i removed and installed my doors the same

Originally Posted by motto

One person can carry the windshield armour but to install it on the vehicle it may be wise to have somebody assist, particularly if everything is already painted. I would suggest that the three hinges be secured to the visor first so as it could then be placed on the vehicle in the down position and maybe a ratchet strap put right around it to stop it sliding down the scuttle.


David

[Big D]

David,

Fantastic. That certainly covers the windshield armour nicely. Much appreciated. Just a thought; if you still have your armour off, is there any chance of you taking a picture of the wiper slots please? I am just trying to get my head around the counter boring on them.

I didn't get a chance to buy you a beer at Corowa last time but I sure owe you one now!

I'll certainly use some form of lifting or securing of the windshield armour when fitting like you and Andrew have said.

Thanks.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by motto

The differences between the White Scout Car and Half Track armour can probably be explained by differences in the mechanical components used on the two vehicles. Larger engine needed larger engine bay. Tracks instead of wheels on the rear may have dictated a wider hull. Length of track unit meant longer arches resulting in narrower front doors (about 6" from memory).

I would be fairly sure that's what it's about.

David,

Thanks, sure makes sense. Looks can be deceiving! Just like the Chev and Ford CMP, they look they same - but the differences are actually quite significant.

Hanno

[motto]

Darryl, if you PM your email address I will try to get you the wiper slot photo. I also have a camera problem that will delay things a little.

To describe things a bit better re the wiper slot:- Starting with the blank plate drill a 1/2"diameter hole with the centre 3/4" up from the lower edge. That creates the upper end of the slot. Next, counterbore that hole from the rear face 7/8" diameter X.230 deep. Lastly, remove just enough material to create a 1/2" wide slot from the original 1/2"hole to the lower edge. Job done! DO NOT EXTEND THE COUNTERBORE.

David

[Big D]

Hi David

PM sent, thanks.

[Big D]

Gidday all,

David or Rick – I wonder if you or the other scout car owners can confirm something else for me please.

I’m looking at the mount that the radiator shutter assembly sits on which is attached to the front of the chassis. It is shown in the photos attached.





I am fairly sure I know the answer to this question but I’m just looking for confirmation that this bracket should not be shaped as mine is.

The plate that is bolted to it sits vertically on mine and I figure it should be canted at a bit of an angle. The plate itself shows no signs of damage, but I’m just wondering if the mounting bracket has been bent from a frontal impact or whether it should be shaped in the way it is.

If it has been bent it has been done very neatly by I’m guessing a very straight on frontal impact but then again I guess it could have been designed like that. I put some arrows on the picture pointing to the area where it mounts on the chassis, but I'm not sure how clear they are.

I can’t find any pictures of this mount so have nothing to compare it to. There aren’t too many other bends on the vehicle and the shape of the mount looks out of place.

Could someone let me know please?

Thanks.

[motto]

Hi Darryl, I had a look at the area in question forward of the radiator mount and on both vehicles here it is the same as yours. The armour plate with the hole for the crank-handle has been pushed back with the bracket at each end partially doubled back on itself and the cross brace twisted. I'm certain that they were not made this way. This piece of armour must be vulnerable to being struck somehow.

I have some measurements for the door upper armour that I will post here for you but the only piece I have has been messed with along the upper edge so can't provide full information.

Still to sort the camera problem.

David

[motto]

Good upon you Ghostly Robert, the photos are exactly what was needed and were a problem for me to supply.

Darryl, The only door upper armour I have has been modified along the upper edge but I will give what dimensions are useful.

The lower edge is 33-3/8" long the same as the upper edge of the door itself.
The view port is 8" X 3-1/2" and is at an angle of 18 degrees from the horizontal (as best as I can measure).
If a line is extended from the lower edge of the opening in both directions the rear extension will intersect the lower edge 19-1/8" from the forward corner. The forward extension will intersect the sloped forward edge 6-1/8" up from the forward corner.
A line drawn through the centres of the aft block guide mounting holes measures as being 1-1/8" aft of the rear edge of the opening with the hole centres 1-11/16" and 6-11/16" up the line from the lower edge.
Forward guide mounting hole centre line is 1-3/4" forward of forward edge of the opening with hole centres 4-3/8" and 10-1/2" up the line from the lower edge.

There is not much more you may need that I can give you Darryl but don't hesitate to ask.

David

Oops, need to locate view port in fore and aft direction!

[Big D]

Hi David,

Thanks for that confirmation on the cross brace. I hadn't noticed it myself until I began looking at how to straighten the front bumper, and then it just didn't look right.

That is obviously a problem area then. I'm just not sure about the merits of trying to remove it and straighten it. Is there an easy way to get those hot rivets(?) out short of just cutting the heads off?

Trying to make up something to replace them that looks like them to could be a problem. I guess a bolt head could be ground to make it look original. Overall it looks like it could be time consuming removing that piece, straightening it when I'm not sure it has a great effect on the look of the vehicle.

Any thoughts?

Thanks to for the door measurements. That is fantastic and much appreciated. I'll start getting a plan together and see if it all makes sense.

Hi Robert,

Thanks to you to for the photos. That does indeed help. I couldn't quite get my head around how it was shaped and this puts all of David's description into perspective.

Many thanks.

[David Dunlop]

It was not unusual for farmers over here to use CMPs to push over trees on their property, which eventually takes its toll on front number and sheet metal. Could the Scout Cars have been used for similar work out your way?

[motto]

G'day Darryl, here's a bit more info on the upper door.

A scribed line projecting each of the ends of the view port opening downwards will intersect the lower edge of the plate at a distance of 6-1/2" for the forward end and 14-7/8" for the rear, measured from the forward corner of the plate. The ends of the opening and therefore the scribed lines would be inclined rearwards at an angle of 108 degrees or 18 degrees aft of vertical.

Two Footman loops appear to have been attached to the door, both being 3" up from the lower edge to the centres. The aft one has the centre of the rear hole 13/16" forward of the rear edge of the plate. The forward one is 1-5/16" from its centre to the forward edge of the plate. This measurement is taken AT RIGHT ANGLES to the forward edge of the plate.
The holes and therefore the Footman loops are 2-1/4" between centres.

In regards to the distorted brackets on the apron armour support I would normally chisel the rivet heads off and punch them out if they are accessible. For replacement I would simply bolt them back in place. That would also be an advantage if you ever had to remove the brackets again.

It's quite possible David that pushing down saplings could have been what did the damage particularly if the roller had been removed as was often the case.

David

[Big D]

Hi David

Fantastic. Thanks for that. I am currently in Queensland doing a bit of holidaying so am keen to get back and get the drawings finalised and get these bits made up.

Cheers again.

[Big D]

Hi David

Thanks for all those measurements. I have the first template finalised for the passenger door upper armour and it all looks good. I will get this off to the steel suppliers as soon as possible and get it made up.

Will post the photos once it is done.

Thanks.

[Tim Bell]

There's a chap on the White Scout Car Appreciation group on Facebook who's in Norway and advertising a lot of armoured parts for sale - his photos suggest he has at least 10 chassis with various parts attached.

I can see if he's happy to share an email address - or post on here - if anyone's interested?

Tim

[motto]

By all means feel free to put the fellow's contact details etc on the 'For sale or wanted forum'

David