How do you move your CMP around?

[Jonnie]

Hi All,

Some day soon I will have to move a 1500cwt CMP from Manatoba to Tampa (2000 miles).

So what ways have owners used to move CMPs long distance?

What size trailer?

Flat tow (eek, needs tires)?

Have someone else do it? If so, do you have any recommendations?

Thanks!

Joanthan Lewis:

[chris vickery]

Well Jon, you asked for it so here goes.
Between myself and many other like-minded individuals I have participated in many a recovery. Going down the road with an overloaded car trailer with a heavy cmp is risky at best. Flat tow forget it.
Nowadays when it comes to recovery I find that an insured, reputable towing company (tilt and load truck) or flatdeck transport are your best bet. I moved a cmp from Manitoba a couple years back, delivered right to my door safe and sound on the back of a transport truck for a reasonable fee.
Surely with all the trucks going to Florida you can find a trucker to do it.
Contact me on the PM if you would like the name and number of the fellow I used in Winnipeg.

[Keith Webb]

We've done the flat tow a number of times over short (well relative to your 2000 miles) distances quite successfully, and have moved many CMPs by this method including C15A, C60S, F60L.



This is Euan doing a single handed solid tow of his C15A which followed along like a big puppy.

Things to watch when doing this sort of tow are to remove the front driveshaft, as well as the rear shaft or the axle shafts. Make sure the brakes aren't binding and the tyres are up to the job. Your tow vehicle also has to be heavy enough to cope.

Having said all that, if you have the resources to afford it, then it's best left to the professionals to do the job.

More towing images here

[Snowtractor]

...my favorite subject. Having done many long hauls both in compliance and not in compliance. I should say that you would need a minimum one ton truck towing a tandem axle trailer with 10,000lb gross rating to be in compliance, (u-haul trailers are 6500lbs gross and I believe 3500lbs load , so out of the question...legally ) . I have a few friends that drag tractors all around North america to shows and sales and they say it is really tough in the states now. With one ton pickup and bumper hitch trailer they must stop at weigh scales in the states . So either have all your I's and T's dotted and crossed chained and blocked and proper axle weight and balances or you are likely to have trouble.
Use a car hauler business, they quoted me about 500 US to move a pickup anywhere in the states a couple of years ago, pretty cheap. I might add before you phone know the dimensions and weight exactly, I doubt they will have your vehicle in their computers . YOu might want to include the height with the cab off , if applicable, CMP's are pretty tall.
Sean

[gjamo]

Keith may I respectfully suggest that both Euan and yourself read clause 294 of the Road Rules Victoria on Vicroads site. http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrpdf/randl/part_18.pdf

[Keith Webb]

Originally posted by gjamo
Keith may I respectfully suggest that both Euan and yourself read clause 294 of the Road Rules Victoria on Vicroads site. http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrpdf/randl/part_18.pdf

"294. Keeping control of a vehicle being towed
(1) The driver of a motor vehicle must not tow another motor vehicle unless—
(a) either—
(i) the driver can control the movement of the towed vehicle; or
(ii) the brakes and steering of the towed vehicle are in working
order and a person who is licensed to drive the towed vehicle is
sitting in the driver’s seat of the towed vehicle, and is in control
of its brakes and steering; and
(b) it is safe to tow the towed vehicle."

There's no problem controling the movement of the towed vehicle which is the case when an A-bar is used; as long as the steering geometry is OK the towed vehicle self-steers like a dream.

and (b) Who could ever be unkind enough to call a CMP unsafe?

[Snowtractor]

Just watched montser garage where a chap was towing a beattle with A-bars , behind a trike. One of the beattles tierod ends broke and it was to the hospital the driver and rider went. Very lucky there wasn't more traffic to hit them when they were on the pavement or there weren't any kids on the sidewalk where the beattle ended up.
With a straight tow make bloody sure the mechanical parts on the towed vehicle are inspected and in good working order. If you kill yourself or wreck a 50,000 dollar pickup well then you are stupid. But if that vehicle breaks free and heads into the oncoming lane and kills a family then you are probably going to be convicted of manslaughter and lose everything you have in legal bills and being sued for damages, if not jail. Of course, you might make it home just fine. Do you have a papaer saying its safe? Are you a papered mechanic verifying it is safe.
Sounds paranoid but I've, very stupidly, had a few close calls and the difference between " Man that was dumb!" and " YOu have the right to remain silent..." was a hairs breadth.
With a safe towing rig and safe tow, the adventure is fun.
Incidentally, Jonnie, I've a Dodge diesel 4X4 Extended cab dually, with a 22ft beavertail fifth wheel flatdeck. I have slowly built up to this for the size of stuff I haul and through experience.
My last long tow, 1400km , My Ford F250 diesel 4x4 pulled great , no problem, but half way through the rim pull was so high The rim started to rip the bead of the tire away from the sidewall which would have left me stranded a min of 150km away from the nearest community. So now I have a dually for safety and peace of mind. I was towing 11,000lbs , with trailer weight, at the time. I have also hauled my carrier 3300km from the family farm to my present home, and my M7 4400km round trip from saskatchewan and a few others.
Might be worth renting a Uhaul 25 foot van and hauling it inside that if you want a trip. You can drive one on a car license and the the repairs would not be your concern.
Sean

[Jonnie]

Wow, this has been pretty interesting, I thought it might make a good thread of different ideas and do's and don'ts.

The 25' van is an interesting idea. I have driven one before and I did move a jeep in a 14'' box, but I believe it is illegal to do so. The funny part was I knew the jeep would fit the 14' but the measurement was with the cab over hang and the bed was shorter. This was a bit of a shock but the MB fit after I took the rear tire off. Of course the bed was not wood and I could not nail in chocks like I wanted to.

So would I have to get a flat bed wreaker on either side of the trip to get it in and out? Do I get arrested at the boarder?

That Monster Garage episode was interesting, I wonder what Jessie would do?

Jonathan Lewis

[Snowtractor]

Illegal? Hmm, I would check that one. They haul race cars and expensive vehicles all over in sealed vans. They haul cars out of my town inside Mayflower Moving vans so it is legal, there might be more to it though.
Shouldn't have trouble driving across and picking it up in Canada (where in Manitoba) but make sure all the purchase papers are in good order. Call US customs and check BEFORE starting to drive. There are rules against reimporting Lend Lease and Marshall plan equipment to the US but this is Canadian built and should be no problem. BUT, I DO NOT KNOW, so check.
Sean

[gazzavc]

I have to take my CMP 15a and my 6 Pounder ATG to an event about 250 miles away from where I live, I realised that there was no way I was goint to trailer it , so I contacted Ryder trucking company and rented a 24 foot flatbed.
The only snag is you need acess to a loading dock at each end but that is comparitivly minor. It is a snap to tie it down and both the truck and gun fit on the truck with room to spare.

Good Luck

Gary Archer

42 Ford MB
42 C-15a
43 OQF 6 pounder Mk V
& a small child's trike.

[gordon]

Either hire one and do it yourself, or hire a truck with driver.

I have limited experience of towing CMPs, though I have done it - no fun.

Flatbed, definitely.

[martineaton]

Hi all,

This is how we moved one of our chev's, The brakes were stuck on, but it still managed to drive up the ramps and onto the truck.

Martin

I'm not really up on this but I used to audit a National Television Network for Canada Customs and the network had to get a State Permit for every state they past through with their vehicles. I have been thinking of buying an oversized unit (more than 8' wide) but the thought of all the permits has really discouraged me.

[king of obsolete]

jonnie, if you check in to the trucking out fit from manitoba to tampa, it will be cheaper to ship it by semi and less hassel. the trucking outfits can do the border paper work and deliver it to your location, what i do is use the trucking outfits loading ramp which is free and then call at tow truck and have the machine delivered. less headarches. right now i'm shipping a piece of machinery from lynn lake manitba to edmonton for peanuts, i could deliver it myself for what they what to haul it for. also it is going inside a van trailer so no ROAD SALT will ever get on it. thanks email me if you need more info.

[Jonnie]

I bought Derk's F15 about a year ago but have not moved it to Tampa yet. I have had a hard time trying to find a cheap way to do it.

He just called to tell me he is selling his house and has no place to put it. He hopes the house sells this month or next.

I'm completely floored.

Any thoughts or do I have to have a fire sale?



Jonathan Lewis

[charlie fitton]

Where is it now?

[Stewart Loy]

Originally posted by charlie fitton
Where is it now?

The guys house is right where it was before.



Stewart

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Jonnie, just go back and reread your original thread here:

http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...&threadid=1597

Just get on the phone and go from there! Start with Chris Vickery's nomination...

[sapper740]

Originally posted by Jonnie
Any thoughts or do I have to have a fire sale?

My CMP was in Chicago at the time I considered purchasing it. I was concerned about how to get it back to Texas with out knowing it's empty weight and what size trailer to bring it back on. I gambled and bought a new auto hauler trailer with electric brakes. The trailer's axles are rated for 3500 lbs. each, so less the weight of the trailer (2000 lbs.) I can haul 5000 lbs. max. I was told my CMP was a C15 with no box so I figured that although I was going to be close, I'd still be legal. I towed the CMP and trailer with my Ford F150. Ford F150's are rated for a max. towed load of 6900 lbs. so its within 100 lbs. of the trailer's max. load. Anyway, to make a long story short, I towed the CMP back from Chicago without a hitch and have made some not-so-long trips since. My trips have taken me throughout Illinois, Missouri, Oklahoma, and Texas without a State Trooper so much as batting an eye lid at me (quickly touching wood!) The only addition was air shocks to help keep the Ford level at night for the headlights. I seldom go over 60 m.p.h. when towing on the Interstates. I've since identified my truck as a C30, so it's probably heavier than I think, even without the box, but I've never had a problem towing it Now, I know my advice is going to attract a torrent of derisive comments, but here goes....beg, borrow or steal an auto hauler trailer, with electric brakes of course and get that puppy home! Once it's home you can reassess your options. Go for it Dude!

P.S. Make sure the trailer is at least 18' long and at least 83" between the wheel wells! Very important!

[Stewart Loy]

Jonathan,

I agree with the others - you are not screwed. You just need a pickup and a trailer to haul your prize home with. If you are going to borrow a trailer be sure to get one wide enough.

I hauled a CMP truck for a fellow and it just fit my trailer. I also grabbed Jon Skagfelds CMP from Kingston. The upside is that there will not be any sliding around on the trailer.

Use plenty of common sence and new chain and binders and don't be afraid to let a few folks pass you on the way home. This allows others to be jealous of your prize, and keeps you from ending up in the ditch.

Good luck.


Stewart

[Bob Carriere]

Stew.....

Did you just buy that Ford/welder...??? that side photo sure looks like the back end of the one for sale on the Forum in London????

How did you explain to your wife.....

Bob C.

[Jonnie]

Well, I'm feeling a bit better.

I know its all my fault. Its been over a year, but its been hard to find a cheap solution: paying someone, trying to rent equipment, buying equipment, etc. I have been asking people's opinion here (locally) constantly. I thought a solution would have shown itself by now (that works for me).

My Truck is rated at 5000 lbs, so it out as a tow vehicle.

Please keep the suggestions comming, I'm hoping the brain trust that is this forum will help!

Jonathan Lewis

[Stewart Loy]

Originally posted by Bob Carriere
Did you just buy that Ford/welder...??? that side photo sure looks like the back end of the one for sale on the Forum in London????

Bob,

No such luck - I will have to be satisfied with the flatties in the Carriers for now.

You do have quite the set of eyes tho' - that IS the same truck that Perry Kitson advertised on behalf of Tommy Allen here in London. We went and fetched it out of a barn near the lake a few months ago. It has a fabricated box on the back, but otherwise looks good. It is now in London, awaiting adoption.

If somebody needed a lift ( not to Florida ) I am sure that we could work out some sort of arrangement ...


Stewart

PS - I think that I have something for you to pick up at CC4.

[rob love]

I wouldn,t throw out the idea of A-framing it out entirely, but on the other hand it would likely cost you as much as just putting it on a flat bed. What kind of a truck do you have? A trip like this would require at least a 3/4 ton. One of the Dodge diesels would come in real handy for this type of venture. The advantage to A-framing is you save the weight of the trailer, but you have to get the running gear in order for a trip of this length.
You are eventually going to have to change the tires so why not do it now? Pick up four of the 9.00X16 non-directionals that are around and when you come out get them installed onto the rims. The tires are available here in Manitoba at as good a price as you will find anywhere. You'll want to put new tubes in as well.There are some of the tire places out here that have guys old enough that they have done these tire rim combinations. Or you can spend a day and try and do them yourself at Derk's place.
Then spend a couple hours and do a quick re-pack of the wheel bearings. You can make up some plywood caps for the rear axles so the diffs don't turn. There is no easy way around the front axles though, so you will want to change the front gear oil, and likely throw a pinion seal on the front diff for a trip that long. At the same time, any of the stuff that can be removed from the truck (axles, drive shaft, tilgate, seats, possibly cab roof) are transferred to your towing vehicle to put the weight in the box.
I've always used a military style A-frame and suggest this option as they are heavy duty and will get the job done. If you don't have one, I could probably fix you up with one while you are up. You'll need a matching pintle hook on your truck.
Costs for this trip would be:
Tires: $300 Cdn
Tubes $120 Cdn
Gear oil $10
Front pinion seal $25
(these are all costs that you will have to spend eventually anyway)

A-frame and pintle hook $200
Towing lights $40

Of course you now have to pay fuel and Mcdonalds costs; theres no way around those expenses.

Now the real costs come in how rough you want to make the trip. If you can sleep in a pup tent or truck cab, you keep the costs down considerably. But if your the type who has to stay in Hotels, then the trip gets very expensive.
If you figure out your fuel costs, I think you'll come out to as much as just having a flatbed do it. But the trick here is to call it your vacation, and eat the costs. Theres lots of military vehicles to see here, and I'm sure the guys would be happy to show off their toys.n Plan on spending at least two to three days in Manitoba.
Below is a photo from my trip to Ontario last year (1500 miles each way). It took me 3 days in total, and I used about $500 in fuel. Mapquest shows your trip at around 2000 miles each way, with a total driving time of 30 hours each way, so it would be two days coming, and three days going back.


If you decide to go this route, I can give you a hand on this end ( as I'm sure Derk would as well), and get most of the stuff lined up for when you get here. One added bonus of this method is you won't pay any duty on the vehicle if you bring it through customs yourself, thanks to NA free trade and the age of the vehicle. You also get to try out real beer, not that watered down stuff you get in the US.
(Now I don't know how adventerous you are, but maybe the flatbed is loooking a little cheaper at this point)

[Jonnie]

Thanks for the post Rob. I'm at work so I have to keep this short. I agree that the cost of doing it the way you describe is about the same as a service. lat year the cheapest I found was about $1400US, which of course is higher now due to fuel prices.

My vehicle is an Isuzu Vehicross, which most are not familar wth. its basically a shortened trooper frame and 3.2L gas (trooper,Rodeo, etc). www.vehicross.info if anyone is curious.

I could have moved it at the begining of the year, but took my first major vacation in five years and went to Corrigedor and Borcay (shoe string budget of course). Three years ago I was jobless, pennyless, and almost homeless. My situation has definately improved, but cash has been an issue. Still is. But I enjoyed the trip.

Jonathan Lewis

[rob love]

Originally posted by Jonnie
My vehicle is an Isuzu Vehicross, which most are not familar wth. its basically a shortened trooper frame and 3.2L gas (trooper,Rodeo, etc). www.vehicross.info if anyone is curious.

To try and straight tow a CMP behind something that small would be suicide. I used to regularily tow my first Cab11 15cwt back and forth to the shop with a CJ7 (360 engine so power wasn't a problem) and it was usually pretty hairy. Problem is the 15cwt will go where it wants to and it'll take you with it.

So your choices are to either flatbed it or borrow a larger truck from someone.
Derk is fairly close to the US border. Would it get cheaper if the truck was on the other side of the line?

[cmperry4]

I A-framed Gord Falk's F15A behind my 109" Land Rover on Sunday, but not very far. It was wet pavement and I was using 4WD, not going fast at all, 40 km/h tops in a straight line and verrry slow on the corners and that thing wanted to get away on me, even got into a little four-wheel drift on one curve doing all of about 20 km/h, as it took the rear end away from me. Definitely you would not want anything less than a *big* 3/4 ton to trail that thing, if at all. The LR is about 3500#

[cliff]

: Jonnie not to be rude but you went overseas on holiday knowing full well that you had to get this truck home? So what if it was your first vacation in 5 years. You should have made going and picking up the CMP a holiday and then you would not be in this predicament.

My suggestion (even if money is tight) is to pay the $1400 bucks plus to get it home if you want it, if not give the truck to someone who can shift it from where it is before the house is sold and it gets left to the new owners.

Cheers
Cliff

PS> I do hope you get to keep it whatever way it goes.

[Snowtractor]

HI Jonnie,
$1400us isn't cheap but what is a week of work for cost? I just got back from a 7456km round trip from the Northwest Territories to Minnesota and back with no second driver. I camped in the truck and at a couple of friends places I have across the country. It was still awful driving with no back up driver. It cost about 1200bucks in diesel ,80 buck oil change and 200 in food and wear and tear and took about 8 days on the road and 4 days of picking up and dropping off a Landcruiser, a cmp trailer and a front end loader. I could have cut off a day in travel with a second driver and been in a lot less pain, ie sore wrists from clamping on to the wheel for hours on end for days on end.
Not that I think you will have the same issues but I also drove through 2 snow storms and a rain storm that had gusts up to 100mph. Now I would have gladly paid 1400 to move the tractor up to me but when I factor in where I live it was over 4k and would have still had to pay for the LC and trailer. So I saved a bunch but it was hard and not very much fun. I did have the rig rig to haul the stuff with a one ton dually with fifth wheel beavertail trailer. THough at the cost of the unit and insurance costs after 9/11 , I could never lend it to anyone, though I would haul something for pals.
All this said get someone to haul it for you, worse comes to worse store it at a self store place for a year. Next year I am moving back to Manitoba and should have an acreage you can store it in the back if it is still necessary. Or I'll give you $100 bucks for it now

Cheers
Sean

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally posted by Snowtractor
Next year I am moving back to Manitoba and should have an acreage you can store it in the back if it is still necessary.

Whoa, back the truck up! Manitoba? Isn't that like going from one wilderness to another?

Seriously, Sean, what brought that on?