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  #1  
Old 08-01-14, 21:42
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default 110 Volts Power Supply

Starting to blow up the dust off these 2 PS and I have a ????

Both PS have a 6 pin socket similar to a regular PS but these run on 110 V.

What is the 6 pin socket used for????

I am putting the finishing touches to a 110 v. 10 amps Variac circa mid 60s. I will try it out on a regualr light bulb first with reading from a VTVM first.

I also have a large one at 20 amps but the carbon skate that rubs on the copper winding is missing....need to dig deeper in the parts box.

Photos to follow.

Bob C.
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  #2  
Old 08-01-14, 23:39
Bruce MacMillan Bruce MacMillan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Carriere View Post

Both PS have a 6 pin socket similar to a regular PS but these run on 110 V.
What is the 6 pin socket used for????

Bob C.
It is used to connect to junction distribution boxes. Have a look at the schematic and you'll see it is wired to pins on the 12 point connector.
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  #3  
Old 09-01-14, 00:49
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default Thanks Bruce.....

Need to consult the schematics.....

You are way ahead of me right now...... but I am learning ..... thanks in great part to you guys on MLU who keep me on the straight an narrow.

Hey I have not blown a fuse....yet!!!

Bruce on a regular power supply it seems to me that the only connection to the control box(es) is with the long twelve pin cable coming from the radio unit.

The regular PS has a 6 pin connector that is the power IN from the batt. or CPP-2......

Why would the 110v. PS send power to the control box(es)

I have already checked the 12 V. power cable and it will fit the 110v. PS.....BUT the indexing pin is rotating the 90 degree elbow to a totally different orientation and the wire bail will not fit...... I only tried a physical fit.... NO power applied.

Meanwhile check my pictures of the Variac I repaired.

Of course now I have question about the Variac.

Using a voltmeter I have confirmed that the numbers on the Variac dial are + or - 1 or 2 volts.
At 30 volts on the Variac dial I get 31.5 volts and the light is orange dim. 70 volts brighter

The strange thing is that it inputs 120.4 on the INPUT line but can actually put out a max of 137.5 volts ....... which made the lamp very very bright.

So I have concluded that the Variac is not only an adjustable voltage control but also capable of multiplying what is actually coming out.

I have huge voltage regulator that range from 109 volts to 139 volts....... because of the large transformers they must weight near to 100 pounds so have not physically played with those yet...but will in due course.

I hope I can repair the other bigger Variac capable of 20 amps......

All comments are appreciated for my edification...!!!

Now to consult the schematic.

Bob C
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  #4  
Old 09-01-14, 01:26
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Carriere View Post
Need to consult the schematics.....

Bruce on a regular power supply it seems to me that the only connection to the control box(es) is with the long twelve pin cable coming from the radio unit.

The regular PS has a 6 pin connector that is the power IN from the batt. or CPP-2......

Why would the 110v. PS send power to the control box(es)

Bob C
Okay, to the first question: audio and a buzzer call are fed through the power supply for tank use - where the supply unit is fed via the turret junction box and the rotary base junction into the tank hull wiring loom.

Second question: the 6-pin power input plug is fully wired, and has 2 x 12 volt inputs (one is for the valve heaters and relay supply, the other is for the dynamotor) so that it can be split (if required) across a 24 volt 3-wire system as well as being used on 12 volts. The other two wires are labelled "Speech" and "Signal". The Speech is for the tank intercom, and the Signal is for a buzzer on the driver intercom box (Junction, Distribution, No. 1 or No.3) operated by the "Call Commander" pushbutton on that box.

Third question: this particular supply unit does not feed power to the 6-pin input connector. (At least, I don't think it does as that might cause real trouble if you have an external 12V feed on there as well.)

*** CAUTIONARY NOTE ***

Those supply units are a) scarce and b) electrically fragile. If the heater-to-cathode insulation fails on any of the 6X5 rectifier valves it can cause complete failure of the unit, effectively putting it beyond repair - all the transformer and smoothing choke parts are in a big, sealed, bitumen-filled canister which is very difficult to fix.

Also, do not fit fuses larger than 250mA to the output circuits. If your set draws enough to blow those fuses then you have (probably) a leaky capacitor or HT short circuit problem.

If you need to run the AC supply on 50Hz instead of 60Hz, there are a couple of wiring changes in the filter circuitry that need to be made first. Refer to the working instructions book for this.

Best,
Chris.
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  #5  
Old 09-01-14, 01:30
Chris Suslowicz Chris Suslowicz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Carriere View Post

Meanwhile check my pictures of the Variac I repaired.

Of course now I have question about the Variac.

Using a voltmeter I have confirmed that the numbers on the Variac dial are + or - 1 or 2 volts.
At 30 volts on the Variac dial I get 31.5 volts and the light is orange dim. 70 volts brighter

The strange thing is that it inputs 120.4 on the INPUT line but can actually put out a max of 137.5 volts ....... which made the lamp very very bright.

So I have concluded that the Variac is not only an adjustable voltage control but also capable of multiplying what is actually coming out.
Bob C
Yes, a variac is actually a variable transformer and can step the voltage up (slightly) as well as down. This can be useful if your AC supply voltage normally runs a little on the low side.
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  #6  
Old 09-01-14, 02:03
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default So much to understand.....

Thanks Chris

So the Variacs are variable transformers.....will be carefull not to over dial the output.

Else where on MLU it was recommended to slowly warm up the 110v PS......
How low should I start the voltage?
Are there any danger of causing a "brown out" at too low a voltage?
How long should I take to gradually ease up to 110Volts.?

Will I need to actually have a load on the PS to properly warm it up...?

I will heed you "CAUTIONARY NOTE".

I have carefully opened up the PS box.... I have observed 4 valves/tubes at the back end....... are they all rectifier tube of the same 6X5 number?
I did not remove them...... I remember my dad using a large non conducting fiber devide to slowly pry old valves from circa 1925 radio so as not to unglue the glass tube from the base.... is this a good practice on the WS 19?

Are there any practical way to testing the rectifier tubes to prevent toasting everything or is it a crap game....?

I did notice that the wiring of the huge transformer cans had empty provision for changing to 50 cycle....fortunetaly will not have to tamper with that.

I undertand the pin arrangement for the 12 volt cable to the power supply and will carefully check with a continuity tester to verify the polarity of the cable that connects to the CPP-2 power supply as the C connectors of the cable to the PS 6 pin are not clear indicated..... do not mean to find out what happens if you reverse the input polarity.

However, I am still not clear why the 110volts has the 6 pin connector out put and why it would go to the control box when being used as a ground training base....?

Be patient with my hard head.

Bob C.
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  #7  
Old 09-01-14, 02:26
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default Bruce need your help again...

On previous emails to Peter S..... on this side of the pond....

you wrote:

This is for the #2 power supply.......for a Canadian Mark III .........PS are they all the same?????

pin1 -12v heaters, -12v dynamotor & gnd
pin2 i/c speech
pin3 +12v heaters & relay
pin4 +12v vibrator & dynamotor
pin5 signal
pin6 -12v vibrator

If working only from the vibrator it is advisable not to power the i/c, A set & B set all at once as it loads the psu. Besides, there's nothing like the scream of a well lubed dynamotor.

Had to delete part of my message previous as it did not make any sense.

What I am trying to do with the above information is verify/confirm that the 12 volts cables from the CPP-2 PS are of the correct polarity because the ends that connect to the CPP-2 PS are not clearly indicated. I will use a simple continuity tester to check out pin numbers and clearly mark my cables for future reference


Again many thanks.

Bob C.
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Last edited by Bob Carriere; 09-01-14 at 02:36. Reason: All mixed up
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  #8  
Old 09-01-14, 06:10
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default Read the old email postings......

Went through the earlier posting on the Wireless forum and found a lot of information that answers all my questions...... now that I have my hands in to the sets the answers make a lot more sense.

Creating the wireless forum was definitely a good suggestion.

I will proceed with caution and try not to send smoke signals.

Need to find someone in the area for tube testing..... especially the 110v PS rectifier tubes.........

Thanks everyone.

Bob C
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  #9  
Old 09-01-14, 11:01
Bruce MacMillan Bruce MacMillan is offline
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Bob, it sounds like you have things in hand.

I wouldn't worry about the 6 pin connector on the psu. There isn't much reference to it's use other than the audio/signalling pins. The pins that have the +12v from the regular battery cable are not connected internally.

Perhaps when the AC psu was developed they thought there was a need to buzz the operator, maybe as part of an intercom system ( or to notify of a brew up).

As to the variac, I use it to avoid the instant on inrush current to the transformer. More important is to keep the ac voltage at 110v max which is a lot lower than most line voltages. It only takes 5-10 seconds to dial the correct voltage. No reason to wait any longer.

Yes, get the tubes tested before applying power. As Chris said if one shorts it can turn a rare psu into a cheap boat anchor.
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  #10  
Old 17-01-14, 23:28
Bob Carriere Bob Carriere is offline
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Default Hard to find a tester person....

So I scored a Hickok TV-7 fully operational and calibrated tube tester.

Now I can't wait for it to get here.

Bob C
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  #11  
Old 18-01-14, 09:56
Bruce MacMillan Bruce MacMillan is offline
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Excellent, that' a good tester. I have a "C" version that was made in Canada by Stark. There is very little difference between the various models, A,B,C & D except the "C" model comes with an adapter assy for English valves.

If you haven't already done it you should use the schematic & an ohmmeter to check the continuity of the windings. If one is open there's no use in proceeding further.
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