MLU FORUM  

Go Back   MLU FORUM > MILITARY VEHICLES > The Softskin Forum

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 28-04-21, 22:54
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hoofddorp, The Netherlands
Posts: 2,670
Default

Quote:
The owner shared a picture of the radiator “in fact it has a hole for a hand crank to pass through the radiator!”
Hanno....it just has to be one, right? The top tank of the radiator seems to have a slightly different shape...and as you say the cap is in a different position. But, I presume there could be details differences between radiator suppliers.

Did the seller share any more pictures? Dataplate? Chassis/engine number?
__________________
Chevrolet C8 cab 11 FFW
BSA Folding Bicycle
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 29-04-21, 02:01
Tony Smith's Avatar
Tony Smith Tony Smith is offline
No1, Mk 2** (I'm back!)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lithgow, NSW, Australia
Posts: 5,042
Default

"Odd Job".

While the roofline and windscreens appear to be of a 13 Cab pattern, it is interesting to note the engine cover and Instrument Binnacle are 12 Cab. You cannot retrofit these to a 13 Cab truck without major work, so the truck has been designed from the start as a real Odd Job.

Anyone driving past the Central Northern SA Deserts soon?
__________________
You can help Keep Mapleleafup Up! See Here how you can help, and why you should!
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 29-04-21, 17:18
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Note how the strengthening rib inside the cab compares to the original:

Name:  A97F8ABE-8203-47E1-B970-49688DF2BCF9.jpeg
Views: 205
Size:  102.5 KB Click image for larger version

Name:	8D0AE4EB-A5B5-4B76-8EB0-9EFE35B272FA.jpeg
Views:	1
Size:	45.5 KB
ID:	121690
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 04-05-21, 14:55
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hoofddorp, The Netherlands
Posts: 2,670
Default

Quote:
While the roofline and windscreens appear to be of a 13 Cab pattern,
Hanno, Tony, I wonder if the roof and windscreen could have been added in it's civvy life(?)

It does seem the Indian Pattern Odd-jobs show some variations as well....I see at least two different engine covers (flat with square box on top....or slighly round shaped without the extension box). Some seem to have a sharp edge along the sloping nose line, while others have a rounded edge. Also, some differences in the hole for the steering box....just a plain hole, vs a hole with a fancy strip around it. Most run without windscreen, some do have a windscreen (retrofitted by Dutch????) I presume these custom noses could have been done by different people and maybe at different companies/depots (?), which would explain the differences.

Any of our Indian members that know more about this subject?
__________________
Chevrolet C8 cab 11 FFW
BSA Folding Bicycle
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 12-09-21, 18:44
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

It’s still there…. https://www.facebook.com/groups/9458...5627247130600/

Quote:
Harley Liebelt:
"Hey guys, thought I'd try again and see if anyone was interested in this old blitz we have?
It has a Commer Knocker motor (which does run) on the back connected to a post hole drill and a ford side valve v8 upfront.
It is located in far North SA but we have the means to transport it.
Open to offers!"

Click image for larger version

Name:	585B222D-7103-402A-8AD0-31D896C83387.jpg
Views:	6
Size:	612.1 KB
ID:	124657
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 21-04-22, 04:24
Tony Wheeler's Avatar
Tony Wheeler Tony Wheeler is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Yarra Junction VIC
Posts: 953
Default Safe at last!

Folks here will be pleased to learn this old girl has finally been rescued from the wilderness and reunited with her CMP family!

Click image for larger version

Name:	TONY4924 (Custom).JPG
Views:	5
Size:	480.5 KB
ID:	128280
__________________
One of the original Australian CMP hunters.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 21-04-22, 04:59
Keith Webb's Avatar
Keith Webb Keith Webb is offline
Film maker, CMP addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Macleod, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 8,216
Default Rare one

Fantastic news Tony!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler View Post
Folks here will be pleased to learn this old girl has finally been rescued from the wilderness and reunited with her CMP family!

Attachment 128280
__________________
Film maker

42 FGT No8 (Aust) remains
42 FGT No9 (Aust)
42 F15
Keith Webb
Macleod, Victoria Australia
Also Canadian Military Pattern Vehicles group on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/canadianmilitarypattern
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 21-04-22, 06:59
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default unique odd job

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler View Post
Folks here will be pleased to learn this old girl has finally been rescued from the wilderness and reunited with her CMP family!
Tony, that’s very exciting news! This must be one of the most epic border raids undertaken in Australia. Congrats on acquiring what may well be the rarest CMP.

Please share some technical details later.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 22-04-22, 00:03
Alex van de Wetering Alex van de Wetering is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Hoofddorp, The Netherlands
Posts: 2,670
Default

Well done Tony!

Please keep us updated on what you are able to find out about the identity and history.
__________________
Chevrolet C8 cab 11 FFW
BSA Folding Bicycle
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 22-04-22, 03:54
Tony Wheeler's Avatar
Tony Wheeler Tony Wheeler is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Yarra Junction VIC
Posts: 953
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post
This must be one of the most epic border raids undertaken in Australia. Congrats on acquiring what may well be the rarest CMP.
Thanks Hanno, it's certainly another epic journey for what is already an extraordinarily well travelled CMP! I presume it's ex-KNIL and was brought to Australia soon after disbandment in 1950, possibly via Darwin. It would have been simple enough to ship from somewhere like Surabaya or even Bali where these vehicles are known to have been stationed. I'd be interested to get your thoughts.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Mintabie to Yarra Junction.jpg
Views:	3
Size:	120.8 KB
ID:	128296


Here she is loaded and ready to depart Mintabie for the 2000 km trek to her new home. Previous owner Peter Liebelt completed the first leg to Adelaide, where she was reloaded for transport to Melbourne.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20220408_142018.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	248.1 KB
ID:	128297


Unfortunately Peter had axle problems in the middle of nowhere. Fortunately he managed to stop before they became catastrophic.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20220408_142203.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	251.9 KB
ID:	128298
__________________
One of the original Australian CMP hunters.

Last edited by Tony Wheeler; 22-04-22 at 04:12.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 22-04-22, 04:08
Tony Wheeler's Avatar
Tony Wheeler Tony Wheeler is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Yarra Junction VIC
Posts: 953
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering View Post
Well done Tony!

Please keep us updated on what you are able to find out about the identity and history.
Thanks Alex, I'll definitely keep you updated on anything further I learn. I'll take some more detailed pics in due course and post in this thread.
__________________
One of the original Australian CMP hunters.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 22-04-22, 11:12
Tony Smith's Avatar
Tony Smith Tony Smith is offline
No1, Mk 2** (I'm back!)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lithgow, NSW, Australia
Posts: 5,042
Default

Good job. This was certainly an interesting vehicle that needed saving from a "Mad Max" fate on the Opal Fields.
__________________
You can help Keep Mapleleafup Up! See Here how you can help, and why you should!
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 23-04-22, 08:38
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler View Post
Thanks Hanno, it's certainly another epic journey for what is already an extraordinarily well travelled CMP! I presume it's ex-KNIL and was brought to Australia soon after disbandment in 1950, possibly via Darwin. It would have been simple enough to ship from somewhere like Surabaya or even Bali where these vehicles are known to have been stationed. I'd be interested to get your thoughts.
Well travelled it is! How it came to Mintabie is a mystery to me and open to conjecture.
I can see they needed a sturdy SWB chassis as a drill platform, but why import one from Indonesia if there were comparable if not identical chassis available in Australia? The CMPs used by the Dutch Army came from the Netherlands (ex-Canadian Army), Australia and the Indian Army*) - where this FAT came from.
In 1949 when the Dutch finally threw the hat in the ring, they handed over most of their equipment to the Indonesian Army. I have no information about them selling off any of their equipment. They must have had more than enough, so maybe they sold off trucks to dealers? I have no idea how international the second/ third/ fourth hand truck market was in the 1950s.
Like I said, it’s open to conjecture as we simply do not have enough information at hand. One day we’l find out. For now, I am very happy to see this unique CMP in safe hands

*) British Indian Army units occupied Indonesia after the Japanse surrender until the Dutch could muster enough troops to take over their equipment and continue the occupation and ensuing war
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 23-04-22, 10:12
Hanno Spoelstra's Avatar
Hanno Spoelstra Hanno Spoelstra is offline
MLU Administrator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 14,400
Default

Nick Balmer commented:

Quote:
I wonder which route supplies of vehicles from India, Burma & Malaysia used to reach the Dutch East Indies?

I know that many of the initial vehicles supplied had arrived in Java with the Indian Armies 23rd Division which was sent to Java and the 26th Division in Sumatra following the surrender of Japan. I believe that once these forces handed over to the newly arriving Dutch forces, they handed over their vehicles to the Dutch.

Other vehicles almost certainly were shipped directly from India to Java or Sumatra.

The presence of this very unusual vehicle in Australia points towards a third route via Australia.

I know that many of the Dutch forces who left Java & Sumatra in 1942 were shipped to Australia, where they reformed and built up a substantial air force.

Did the Dutch refugees also form army or marine units in Australia between 1942-1946?

If so where?

I wonder if they received Indian Army trucks to assist in the training at depots in Australia?

When did the Dutch forces leave Australia? Where they using somewhere like Fremantle as a operating & logistics hub in 1945-1948?
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 05-05-22, 19:54
Tony Wheeler's Avatar
Tony Wheeler Tony Wheeler is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Yarra Junction VIC
Posts: 953
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra View Post
In 1949 when the Dutch finally threw the hat in the ring, they handed over most of their equipment to the Indonesian Army.
Presumably the Indonesian Army disposed of their ex-KNIL vehicles over time and many wound up in Dutch civilian hands. We know there was a mass exodus of the Dutch population during the 1950's, with many of them choosing Australia as their new home. Amongst their possessions would have been cars and trucks, which would have been easy enough to ship if required. Perhaps some adventurous Dutchman brought this ex-Army 4WD truck to Darwin as an ideal vehicle for outback exploration. Whatever the case it appears to have wound up in Adelaide where the engine was reconditioned in 1961, and where it probably received the fabricated metal cab, which closely resembles others known to have been fabricated in Adelaide engineering works. At some later stage it was fitted with the drilling rig for use in opal mining. This rig has clearly been transplanted off a much longer truck, requiring the cab rear panel to be cut out completely, and the diesel power plant projecting into the cab itself.

Click image for larger version

Name:	TONY4956  (Medium).JPG
Views:	4
Size:	198.9 KB
ID:	128454 Click image for larger version

Name:	TONY4947 (Medium).JPG
Views:	1
Size:	263.3 KB
ID:	128455
__________________
One of the original Australian CMP hunters.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 06-05-22, 04:41
Tony Wheeler's Avatar
Tony Wheeler Tony Wheeler is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Yarra Junction VIC
Posts: 953
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering View Post
Please keep us updated on what you are able to find out about the identity and history.
My general understanding of this CMP type, based on the available evidence, is outlined below. It's basically joining the dots between references in various publications, most of which Hanno has previously identified.

The Ford FGT parts list mentions a "low cowl" variant which corresponds with the C291QH chassis described in the Ford Armoured Vehicles Chassis Instruction Book.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Ford C291QH low cowl chassis.jpg
Views:	2
Size:	230.6 KB
ID:	128464


Bart Vanderveen's Historic Military Vehicle Directory lists the Indian Pattern Armoured Truck, and also mentions a 4-berth Ambulance version. These correspond with the C291QH and C19QHF chassis pictured in Ford publications. Given their intended use for armoured vehicles it's reasonable to assume the H-suffix indicates Heavy, but in practical terms the significant feature of these chassis is the low cowl design, achieved by omitting the front crossmember to allow a low mounted radiator.

Click image for larger version

Name:	C291QH  low cowl chassis for IP Armoured Truck.jpg
Views:	0
Size:	143.3 KB
ID:	128465

Click image for larger version

Name:	C19QHF  low cowl chassis for IP Armoured Ambulance.jpg
Views:	0
Size:	149.2 KB
ID:	128466


The 1944 Ford India training manual lists the various CMP chassis types in use by Indian Army at the time. It shows the aforementioned C291QH and C19QHF chassis as "stripped", which I take to mean they were stripped of their armoured bodies and converted to GS configuration, using a standard timber rear body. This mirrors what occurred in Australia with the Rover Armoured Car when they became obsolete in 1942. Of course, the Rover AC was built on the standard CMP chassis, allowing a standard cab to be fitted, whereas the Indian Pattern low cowl chassis required a completely revised cab design. I shall post some more detailed pics of the cab structure in due course.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Ford India Army Training Course manual (Lauren Child UK).jpeg
Views:	2
Size:	300.7 KB
ID:	128467

Click image for larger version

Name:	Ford India Army Training Course manual chassis listing.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	206.8 KB
ID:	128468
__________________
One of the original Australian CMP hunters.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:03.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Maple Leaf Up, 2003-2016