SAR Armoured Command Vehicle ... Again

[Chris Johnson]

Does anyone on the forum happen to have a rear view photo of the SAR ACV that is currently undergoing restoration? I'm trying to complete a line drawing of it for the forthcoming SALH regimental history and while the photos Rob McCue posted on an earlier thread are most helpful, I'm lacking anything from the rear, or right side for that matter. I e-mailed Rob directly sometime ago but unfortunately, it didn't elicit a reply.

At this point, having seen the images posted by Rob, I'm leaning towards the idea that this halftrack didn't have an MG pulpit, at least after the conversion was completed. The lack of a pulpit, combined with the flared front fender indicates to me that this could well be a White M3, rather than the M3A1. Further, as the halftrack was utilized as an armoured command vehicle, this would make sense as the M3 incorporated a rear door. This seems logical to me to provide ease of entry and egress from the command compartment. Thoughts anyone?

Cheers,

Chris

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Chris Johnson
Does anyone on the forum happen to have a rear view photo of the SAR ACV that is currently undergoing restoration?

Here you go, Chris:

Source: http://www.mapleleafup.net/vehicles/...r/sar_acv.html

Also see South Alberta M3 Command track.... and follow the links to the old forum. The registration number was originally CL4237226.

Good luck with your line drawing,

Hanno

[Chris Johnson]

Thanks Hanno. I should've done some further research before posting as the material was here all of the time but I missed it. This image you've supplied is just what I was looking for.

Cheers,

Chris

[Rob McCue]

Hello Chris,

Sorry about not responding to your e-mail’s, I have moved twice since you and I exchanged e-mails and I haven’t sent out a proper change notification to everyone.

Progress on the HT has been very quick, I have some war time photos I will share with you, the SAR Vets and Donald Graves have been very helpful with these matters.

As far as I know there is no wartime photo of the back of the halftrack, most vets remember the veh but not a lot of detail. There is a war time vet who rode in the vehicle as the Intelligence Sgt, his name is Ken Armstrong, and he lives in Edmonton and visits the restoration on occasion. He has some memories of the layout, but time has erased a lot of his knowledge of particulars.

The vehicle had a special roof built onto it, this was not hardened steel, but only fairly thick sheet metal, I can send you lots of pictures of this roof and how the overhead sliding doors worked.

There was a divider made of wood in the center of the rear compartment that separated the vehicle into two parts, the forward section(halfway in the rear cargo area to the driver and pass seats was the CP, the back half of the compartment was the actual radio room)or CP.

Apparently the only access to the CP was from the driver or pass doors and for ease of access the factory supplied folding jump seat in the center of the cab had been removed, you could not access the CP from the rear, although there was a small window for passing message traffic back and forth.

The Radio Operator had entrance from the rear door and he also had a swivel chair in the back, but Ken’s memory of the radio setup is poor.

The current (modern photos of the vehicle) show a different adaptation of the ACV then the wartime vehicle. It was first restored in the late 50’s and was altered from the wartime ACV.

Donald Graves has been in touch with the last War time officer who served in the vehicle (Bert Coffin) and he is hoping to get a sketch of the back as close as possible.

The one photo we have of the ACV interior is taken from the drivers door (you can see the top half is folded down with just the hinges showing) it shows Col Wotherspoon and Capt Allsopp in the CP area, there is a folding wooden desk built over the gas tank and on that desk are log books and an old telephone (apparently they would splice into civilian phone lines to have additional Comms when avail). Behind the two you see a wall very close behind them (midway point of rear compartment),

Ken Armstrong told me that he used to update the Col’s maps and charts there constantly. He would use the divider for display of maps, charts of org & equipment, and air photos when they could get them. He told me he remembered that they always had two officers in there most of the time (It appears to have two seats in the veh as both the Col and Capt Allsopp are seated one behind the others-Ken thought they may have been swivel chairs).
Col Wotherspoon did not spend a lot of time in the CP as he was always going to the different Sqn’s in his Scout Car.

Along the left side of the photo you will notice the storage bins, with what appears to be kit on the shelf, and it appears that these bins were unaltered in the 50’s as they still exist in a similar fashion today.

On the exterior photos during wartime you will note that the veh had a two-tone camoflauge paint scheme (apparently green and black-as per Ken-Armstrong) and that there were diamond markings on the rear hull with what appears to be a white 50 in the middle. No-one has been able to explain these marks to me. The diamonds are painted just below the swinging armour doors for the refuelling of the gas tanks (they cut two holes-one on either side approx 2” diam to allow fuelling). I can send detailed pics if you require them.

The canvas on the back roof is apparently a canvas penthouse for the radio operator. I have no idea of how it was built or what it contained but it is prevalent in the group photo of the RHQ and also in the photo taken in Belgium( we assume it was probably used for pers kit and stores as the veh would be very full with all the radios and the other requirements in the cp area).

You will note that in the photos the allied star was painted on the veh, with the hood having the only white circle around it and the side and probably the rear being white stars only.

Note also that the SAR HT had the jerry can holders in front of the cab removed, Ken Armstrong told me he had to get the jerry cans from the back of the vehicle, he remembered that they had “luggage racks” on the back on either side, the pass side of the vehicle held the fuel and water cans and the other held some of the canvas for the CP.
The war photo in Belgium (the one from driver side-officer in the leather jerkin) shows various antennae and other poles on the roof, careful inspection will show you a square hole cut in the roof and it is open, it may have been a heater exhaust, as the cp did not have any original heater in the vehicle (the modern photos have that spot patched over), and the AMU (antennae matching unit, or L-bracket) is just to the rear of this hole, in the restoration in the 50’s they moved the radios and the AMU’s to the front of the vehicle, and put one AMU on the rear of the vehicle. The original brackets can be located with the holes having been filled with screws (these were Robertson screws which did not exist in WWII), and give us the suggestion that 4 AMU’s were present on the vehicle, 2 per side on the rear half of the vehicle. Does this indicate that the CP had 4 No 19 Sets? or just 4 antennae's?

In the 60’s they welded two bars on the vehicle body for displaying Flags during parades they are obvious in the modern photo's , which we have since removed and discarded.

The vehicle is actually a Diamond-T Halftrack, which used the White Motor, hence the confusion with the make, we determined this through the serial numbers found on the frame, and we also believe that the engine is original from the factory as per the serial number found.
The serial for the frame is apparently one of the first 2000 Diamond-T models to come off the assembly line in Mar/Apr of ’42. It is an early model HT, it has the early style combat split rim wheels in the front and the suspension adjusting tensioner at the rear idler is much smaller than later models(no large spring just forward of the rear idler in side the track well).

There was never a MG pulpit on this particular vehicle, but had come from factory with an mg post just behind the center seat in the drivers compartment (this post would have held a .30 cal or .50 cal mg). Evidence of this attachment remains as there is a bolt pattern on the center section of the floor to support that mg post
I have lots of photos from the restoration thus far and will share when I get time.
We have been very busy with the project and I will try to get more time to reduce photo's to fit in this forum, to show our progress.

Cheers Rob

[John McGillivray]

there were diamond markings on the rear hull with what appears to be a white 50 in the middle. No-one has been able to explain these marks to me.

Hello Rob,

The diamonds with the 50 in the center would be the standard Tac Sign used in Armoured Regiments. Diamonds are used on RHQ vehicles, triangles for A Squadron, squares for B Squadron, and circles for C Squadron vehicles. The numbers would denote the troop and the vehicle.

John